CX vs EK
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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CX vs EK
Hi guys,
Just wondering what would be the best company for an expat pilot. Cathay or Emirates? If you compare salary scale, benefits....etc what can be the best carreer opportunity etween those 2 airlines.
Any judgement is welcome
Just wondering what would be the best company for an expat pilot. Cathay or Emirates? If you compare salary scale, benefits....etc what can be the best carreer opportunity etween those 2 airlines.
Any judgement is welcome
Join Date: May 2002
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Go to EK, young man. CX's day has passed.
Abysmal employee relations, beligerent management, contract abuse, intimidation, lies, misinformation and a government that encourages all of the above make CX a flickering candle.
I am well into my second decade at CX and there isn't a day that I don't think about leaving.
I don't know if EK is the Holy Grail, but I can assure you that CX has lost it's magic...a long time ago.
Just my opinion.
Abysmal employee relations, beligerent management, contract abuse, intimidation, lies, misinformation and a government that encourages all of the above make CX a flickering candle.
I am well into my second decade at CX and there isn't a day that I don't think about leaving.
I don't know if EK is the Holy Grail, but I can assure you that CX has lost it's magic...a long time ago.
Just my opinion.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Just keep in mind that a first year F/O at CX earns more than most captains at EK. We are generally a content bunch here, but our management is no better than CX. The only difference is that ours has not had to fight to reduce large salaries to what they are now. We have always had low salaries and dont expect it to change much.
Join Date: Aug 1998
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Druckme....
Unsurprising to see that the level of your commentary is nicely matched to the sophisitication of your handle.....
Your dismissal of Emirates management does you no credit.
If you could spare the time in the crew room some day you might ask around as to how the company has supported people who have (variously) fractured their legs in car crashes while under the influence, had cancer, had severe back problems, had severe family problems, etc etc.
You might then (if you have any sense at all) realize that Emirates management qua management is unexcelled.
Personally, they get my vote for outlawing unions and the self-pitying, misanthropic, bile-flavoured sneer they bring to any human discourse.
But you appear to be well-acquainted with that. Here's hoping we never fly together.
Your dismissal of Emirates management does you no credit.
If you could spare the time in the crew room some day you might ask around as to how the company has supported people who have (variously) fractured their legs in car crashes while under the influence, had cancer, had severe back problems, had severe family problems, etc etc.
You might then (if you have any sense at all) realize that Emirates management qua management is unexcelled.
Personally, they get my vote for outlawing unions and the self-pitying, misanthropic, bile-flavoured sneer they bring to any human discourse.
But you appear to be well-acquainted with that. Here's hoping we never fly together.
Join Date: May 2001
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Cpt. Underpants when you joined CX the gratuity fund was designed to mature in 15 years, so if you have two decades there you could leave any time, and no doubt you have a nice wedge accumulated. Good for you...so why don't you chuck it?
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DTP
You are quite right in your comments about how the company has supported everyone (to my knowledge) that has had a medical problem. On this point i have no dispute and in fact take my hat off to the way that it has been handled in most cases. My comments were more toward the fact that ever since i have been here, conditions have been slowly eroded. This is not new nor unique in our industry. But it does show that we (our company) are probably no different to any of the other big airlines who are battling to keep costs down. I would say that the currently proposed changes to extra duty pay (training, crm etc) and the loss of the travelling allowance associated with some of these duties would be a case in point. As i mentioned we are generally a content bunch here (me included) just dont be fooled that our management is any better than most. On the other hand i believe our owners are terrific. I just think that there is a little lost between them and us.
Cheers
P.S You will notice in my previous "unsophisticated" post, that i did not lower myself to personal insults. But i guess i can only work toward achieving your level of sophistication.
You are quite right in your comments about how the company has supported everyone (to my knowledge) that has had a medical problem. On this point i have no dispute and in fact take my hat off to the way that it has been handled in most cases. My comments were more toward the fact that ever since i have been here, conditions have been slowly eroded. This is not new nor unique in our industry. But it does show that we (our company) are probably no different to any of the other big airlines who are battling to keep costs down. I would say that the currently proposed changes to extra duty pay (training, crm etc) and the loss of the travelling allowance associated with some of these duties would be a case in point. As i mentioned we are generally a content bunch here (me included) just dont be fooled that our management is any better than most. On the other hand i believe our owners are terrific. I just think that there is a little lost between them and us.
Cheers
P.S You will notice in my previous "unsophisticated" post, that i did not lower myself to personal insults. But i guess i can only work toward achieving your level of sophistication.
Last edited by druckmefunk; 9th Sep 2002 at 07:15.
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Comparing apples to apples in the vain of the original post is difficult. Do you have kids? Do you like hosties who aren't particularly Asian (No racial preference inferred on my behalf.)? Do you mind living in a small box crowded in by 5 million others? Do you think that working in aviation anywhere is better than an average job in an average country with an average retirement plan?
The outright pay numbers are vastlly different, as are the costs. The general complaints against our management are similar to many other airlines but generally less vitriolic. If you work in aviation and haven't seen erosion of conditions it's only becasue you're working for free currently, too glassy eyed to notice, or so senior that you're unaware that your major airline is about to file for Chapter 11 but haven't got around to telling you yet.
Ask some of the drivers that you know in each location with similar interests/domestic circumstances and then weigh up the money versus happiness graph that should be the obvious outcome of your enquiries. Find the point on the curve that suits you. Get your job and then begin whinging like the rest of us.
There's no pilot as happy or content as a whinging one!
Edited because I can't spell havne't. D'oh!
The outright pay numbers are vastlly different, as are the costs. The general complaints against our management are similar to many other airlines but generally less vitriolic. If you work in aviation and haven't seen erosion of conditions it's only becasue you're working for free currently, too glassy eyed to notice, or so senior that you're unaware that your major airline is about to file for Chapter 11 but haven't got around to telling you yet.
Ask some of the drivers that you know in each location with similar interests/domestic circumstances and then weigh up the money versus happiness graph that should be the obvious outcome of your enquiries. Find the point on the curve that suits you. Get your job and then begin whinging like the rest of us.
There's no pilot as happy or content as a whinging one!
Edited because I can't spell havne't. D'oh!
Join Date: May 2002
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I would think CX is the better option. They have many bases outside Hong Kong and the money is substantially better and will probably continue to be. The EK package has eroded significantly down the years and will continue to get worse whilst people are lineing up to get in. Especially from countries where Ek money looks like winning the national lottery. Besides, Hong Kong is more of a normal existance than Dubai. Don't have to live in a tower block with all your work colleagues. Horses for courses though...
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Just wanted to add my two cents worth...
While the "Count" is correct in that with CX you have a variety of bases to chose from, one must also consider what the tax rate is in your respective country. Also, cost of accomodation is also a consideration. As a Canadian, I would have to make about 140,000 CDN per annum to equal what a F/O makes at EK. Not to mention paying for a house, etc.
Management-employee relations(or lack of it) is also a BIG issue at CX right now.
Bottom line, EK gets my vote by a mile.
Cheers,
YYZguy.
While the "Count" is correct in that with CX you have a variety of bases to chose from, one must also consider what the tax rate is in your respective country. Also, cost of accomodation is also a consideration. As a Canadian, I would have to make about 140,000 CDN per annum to equal what a F/O makes at EK. Not to mention paying for a house, etc.
Management-employee relations(or lack of it) is also a BIG issue at CX right now.
Bottom line, EK gets my vote by a mile.
Cheers,
YYZguy.
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Lets face it, most airline pilots are a bunch of whinging bastards coz the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence!!
As yet I haven't been shot at since I have flown for EK, the water has been warm, the beer cold and life has been good.
When you decide where to go you have to decide whether the pull factors outweigh the push factors. If they do, you can go; when they don't you leave. For me not having 6 million people in my lift outwighs the fact that some people I speak to shake their heads when they are saying yes.
It is a personal decision. If money is what you are after get a green card. At EK the Aussies whine a lot coz they have better beaches. The Brits think its great coz their weather sucks and the South Africans have no where else to go. Bottom line is that CX vs EK is an entirely personal decision that only you can make.
Doesn't help at all; sorry. I'm happy, others aren't.
Ghost
As yet I haven't been shot at since I have flown for EK, the water has been warm, the beer cold and life has been good.
When you decide where to go you have to decide whether the pull factors outweigh the push factors. If they do, you can go; when they don't you leave. For me not having 6 million people in my lift outwighs the fact that some people I speak to shake their heads when they are saying yes.
It is a personal decision. If money is what you are after get a green card. At EK the Aussies whine a lot coz they have better beaches. The Brits think its great coz their weather sucks and the South Africans have no where else to go. Bottom line is that CX vs EK is an entirely personal decision that only you can make.
Doesn't help at all; sorry. I'm happy, others aren't.
Ghost
I would have thought a better comparison would have been EK to Dragonair. Many of us have made that choice already with different decisions. Both good airlines if you know what you want!
