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RIA Saudi Airlines?

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RIA Saudi Airlines?

Old 28th Oct 2022, 20:30
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Originally Posted by TBL Warrior
Have you ever been to RUH?

EK is currently full of CX Captains whom took FO positions as opposed to going to QR DEC - most say because they didnít want to live in Doha. The same will apply to living in RUH.

I am sure Douglas and his crew wonít be going just to get a tan either.

https://www.arabianbusiness.com/indu...di-airline-ria
I Have been all over Saudi and know the people better than most. Time will tell and I wouldn't keep my hopes high for anything more than the underpaid market rate.
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Old 29th Oct 2022, 08:59
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Originally Posted by Bloated Stomach
Absolutely deluded if anyone thinks they'll be paying 30K a month. They'll be paying on par with the ME3 and there are plenty of skippers around the world who will take it. Ask any A350 skjpper in Cathay. The grass is always greener elsewhere even in the dry Saudi dessert.
Of course they will not pay 30 K. But if they pay like ME3 why would anybody go to Riyadh instead of DXB or DOH ? Why?
I rather think RIA will need to pay in between, like 22 to 25K. And 16 to 20K if ití s commutingÖ
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Old 29th Oct 2022, 16:51
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Originally Posted by FBW390
you think many expat experienced Captains will leave their permanent position to come for a short term contract ? In Saudi Arabia?
I'm very familiar with what is going on in Saudi Arabia right now. What they will do is offer the minimum which they need to in order to get the Captains they need.
There is always political pressure to Saudiise, therefore the contracts will only be as long as needed to get the personnel. They'll start with 2 years.
I would bet the basic salary will be 40,000 sar with productivity pay on top. Maybe taking it to 70,000 sar if you work hard. No education and a small housing allowance.
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Old 29th Oct 2022, 16:54
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Originally Posted by kungfu panda
I'm very familiar with what is going on in Saudi Arabia right now. What they will do is offer the minimum which they need to in order to get the Captains they need.
There is always political pressure to Saudiise, therefore the contracts will only be as long as needed to get the personnel. They'll start with 2 years.
I would bet the basic salary will be 40,000 sar with productivity pay on top. Maybe taking it to 70,000 sar if you work hard. No education and a small housing allowance.
AH!
Good luck then...
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Old 29th Oct 2022, 17:26
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Let me just add that 20/10 will probably be an option for commuters.
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Old 30th Oct 2022, 15:32
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Originally Posted by FBW390
why would anybody go to Riyadh instead of DXB or DOH ? Why?
For the entertainment? The Square is always fun.
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Old 6th Nov 2022, 05:52
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Originally Posted by kungfu panda
I'm very familiar with what is going on in Saudi Arabia right now. What they will do is offer the minimum which they need to in order to get the Captains they need.
There is always political pressure to Saudiise, therefore the contracts will only be as long as needed to get the personnel. They'll start with 2 years.
I would bet the basic salary will be 40,000 sar with productivity pay on top. Maybe taking it to 70,000 sar if you work hard. No education and a small housing allowance.

If that's the case, I'm not sure it will work for many of us.
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Old 6th Nov 2022, 06:39
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Originally Posted by kungfu panda
I'm very familiar with what is going on in Saudi Arabia right now. What they will do is offer the minimum which they need to in order to get the Captains they need.
There is always political pressure to Saudiise, therefore the contracts will only be as long as needed to get the personnel. They'll start with 2 years.
I would bet the basic salary will be 40,000 sar with productivity pay on top. Maybe taking it to 70,000 sar if you work hard. No education and a small housing allowance.
sorry to say a bet isnít enough to hold on.
but the designated CEO of RIA knows the expat scenery of the Middle East very well therefore the price tag will be approached in way being certainly tempting for people like or must commute, will salary wise be competitive and will have one or two little gadgets attached to drive in the people they need. Unless that the project is about to fail before they start.
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Old 6th Nov 2022, 11:38
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Originally Posted by flyTheBigFatLady
sorry to say a bet isnít enough to hold on.
but the designated CEO of RIA knows the expat scenery of the Middle East very well therefore the price tag will be approached in way being certainly tempting for people like or must commute, will salary wise be competitive and will have one or two little gadgets attached to drive in the people they need. Unless that the project is about to fail before they start.
The project will certainly go ahead. The $30 billion is ear marked for it from probably the wealthiest Public investment fund in the World.

I think that what I have said is fairly accurate, it maybe a little more but don't expect that. It will probably be commuting - 20/10
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Old 6th Nov 2022, 13:00
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Originally Posted by kungfu panda
The project will certainly go ahead. The $30 billion is ear marked for it from probably the wealthiest Public investment fund in the World.

I think that what I have said is fairly accurate, it maybe a little more but don't expect that. It will probably be commuting - 20/10
I don't think anyone is disputing what you say....I think the consensus is that you will not find many from EK interested. The number you mention are comparible with what we already make, so why make the move to an untested operator in a less desirable location. I would consider a move for $10k more but not for $1000.

Maybe their target is A320 pilots from Europe LCC's and then they will simply be a feeder to EK & QTR...
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Old 6th Nov 2022, 13:14
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Originally Posted by Kennytheking
I don't think anyone is disputing what you say....I think the consensus is that you will not find many from EK interested. The number you mention are comparible with what we already make, so why make the move to an untested operator in a less desirable location. I would consider a move for $10k more but not for $1000.

Maybe their target is A320 pilots from Europe LCC's and then they will simply be a feeder to EK & QTR...
from what I hear, they want to be bigger than their competition such as QR and EK
starting with a320 they aiming for a luxury long haul operation. LH operation will focus on 3 types (787,777x and 350)
they are definitely not going to be feeder for someone else.
as rumors say starting line for long haul is within 2 years from now
as I mentioned rumors. According to some post the high budget they like to deliver looks like going big and not only 320 fleet as feeder.

i also hear their is a lot interest of ME3 pilots, as well as some fear from them to loose pilots to it, as some measures have been taken to keep employees who have rejoined or joined recently. If it will be enough - weíll see.

letís see what they come up with
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Old 6th Nov 2022, 17:06
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from what I hear, they want to be bigger than their competition such as QR and EK
They can have lofty ambitions - they can be EK x2 if they like but they will not attract the talent from EK with the numbers mentioned here.

KSA has some serious image(human rights, etc) challenges to overcome, whilst Dubai has come a long way in the last 30 years. Why would people choose KSA over Dubai when they have questions over how safe their women will be. KSA will have to throw money at this Chinese style, or accept the fact that they will be selecting from EK left overs.
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Old 6th Nov 2022, 19:04
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I think people on this thread forget that there are pilots outside of the middle East and the cream of your crop don't all work for the middle eastern operators. There are highly competent pilots working in low cost operations throughout the world. They are extremely underpaid as well as undervalued and will no doubt find interest in this Saudi start up. They also won't be asking the numbers that are being thrown around on this thread. Although I feel we are worth every penny, the world has now changed and Airline operators are run by bean counters. The manufacturers are also run by bean counters so cost is something that is at the top of the priority list. With regret, safety or experience isn't and that's the bitter truth to swallow going forward.
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Old 6th Nov 2022, 19:15
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Originally Posted by Bloated Stomach
I think people on this thread forget that there are pilots outside of the middle East and the cream of your crop don't all work for the middle eastern operators. There are highly competent pilots working in low cost operations throughout the world. They are extremely underpaid as well as undervalued and will no doubt find interest in this Saudi start up. They also won't be asking the numbers that are being thrown around on this thread. Although I feel we are worth every penny, the world has now changed and Airline operators are run by bean counters. The manufacturers are also run by bean counters so cost is something that is at the top of the priority list. With regret, safety or experience isn't and that's the bitter truth to swallow going forward.
Well, yes and no. What They're going to need is experienced Widebody, longhaul Captains who will fly with relatively inexperienced Saudi First Officers. They're not going to be looking for Capt. Joe Bloggs from Ryanair.
If what I suggest will be the initial offer does not attract sufficient of the right candidates then obviously they'll up that offer. They will believe commuting to be very attractive though.
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Old 7th Nov 2022, 07:10
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The SV expats that were moved from JED to RUH had 20/10 for a while.. Didn't that & other benefits later change unfavourably for them?

Would Ria be any different?
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Old 7th Nov 2022, 07:25
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Originally Posted by kungfu panda
Well, yes and no. What They're going to need is experienced Widebody, longhaul Captains who will fly with relatively inexperienced Saudi First Officers. They're not going to be looking for Capt. Joe Bloggs from Ryanair.
If what I suggest will be the initial offer does not attract sufficient of the right candidates then obviously they'll up that offer. They will believe commuting to be very attractive though.
as for the experience once they need only a handful. And only they proof ETOP, LVP, NAT competence for the AOC
for the rest EK,EY, and QR have proofed that a Guy mit maybe 1000 command on A320 can be good enough to jump on a wide body a direct entry captain (EK has done that on the 330/340)
experience is only a convienient at the time it suits them but mostly overrated for these companies (e.g. taking a320 and crj FOs directly onto the 380 instead of numerous 330/340 FO form within the company as EK did it in 2014, or putting a10000hr 340 capo in the right seat of a 380 because only 1000 hour came from EK)

bottom line experience is only important when it suits them and not what we believe would be practicable or they should have

as mentioned above if they come up with medium terms, attractive enough for people from eu LCC. They will take them no matter what experience they have.

those building the training and fleet management, yes they will be very experienced in their roles and will also be paid accordingly.

for the part with the Saudia FO - ask the question why they start a new airline, rather than ramping up saudia airlines.
because the working conditions for locals donít allow to make a business ala EK or QR, which means this new airline will be based on mostly or entirely expats as the rules of employment are completely different to those for an saudia national.

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Old 7th Nov 2022, 11:39
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Originally Posted by flyTheBigFatLady
as for the experience once they need only a handful. And only they proof ETOP, LVP, NAT competence for the AOC
for the rest EK,EY, and QR have proofed that a Guy mit maybe 1000 command on A320 can be good enough to jump on a wide body a direct entry captain (EK has done that on the 330/340)
experience is only a convienient at the time it suits them but mostly overrated for these companies (e.g. taking a320 and crj FOs directly onto the 380 instead of numerous 330/340 FO form within the company as EK did it in 2014, or putting a10000hr 340 capo in the right seat of a 380 because only 1000 hour came from EK)

bottom line experience is only important when it suits them and not what we believe would be practicable or they should have

as mentioned above if they come up with medium terms, attractive enough for people from eu LCC. They will take them no matter what experience they have.

those building the training and fleet management, yes they will be very experienced in their roles and will also be paid accordingly.

for the part with the Saudia FO - ask the question why they start a new airline, rather than ramping up saudia airlines.
because the working conditions for locals donít allow to make a business ala EK or QR, which means this new airline will be based on mostly or entirely expats as the rules of employment are completely different to those for an saudia national.
I understand all of your argument but I don't think that what you're saying will apply in Saudi for expats. They will take Saudi A320 Captains and upgrade them to A350's but to do that for foreign Pilots would be totally counter to the extremely important Saudiisation policy.

As an expat, you'll need experience that justifies over-riding saudisation. A short haul Captain will not meet that criteria. All of the foreign A320 Captains who remain in Saudia, have been there for as long as 16 years, maybe longer, they have never had any promotion.

As for First Officers, I think I heard a ridiculous figure just prior to Covid that the Saudi's had something like 5000 students in the United States doing the 4 year degree in Aviation related subjects, followed by Commercial licence, with the intention of returning as First Officer to Saudi. To my knowledge, they will not need to hire foreign F/O's. If they did, there certainly would never be an upgrade.

This is all IMHO based on years of Saudi experience.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 15:43
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Negative people have no knowledge of KSA.

I've lived here since 2011, and I've been familiar with the kingdom since 2004, and the changes I'm observing are nothing short of astounding.
The biggest economy in the Middle East and KSA helped Dubai grow, and I've always known they could diversify their economy when they needed to, which is what is happening now.

MBS is fully aware of the fact that society as a whole is transforming and Generation Z is educated in the West. 70% of the country's youngsters support him.

We aim to bring 300 million passengers by 2030, and if we assume a conservative growth rate of 50%, that is a tremendous increase. With airports and infrastructure being upgraded, it is only a matter of time before you see what is happening on the ground as a result of the six Freedom flights.
They have Umrah and HAJ in their back pockets, and with transit passengers, they will create a new market.

Emirates and Qatar are success stories, but ask yourself if the double-digit growth of the last two decades will continue.

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is at the start of the S-curve, and its growth will be enormous as it gains market share and expands globally.

​​​​​​Regarding the COS, all we can do is wait and see. With this projected expansion in front of you, the experience will always be necessary.
No numbers have been run yet, but I am sure that it will be the best in its field and very competitive.
Don't forget that the majority of men hired from outside the KSA will need to convert their licenses to GACA, a process that can take up to four to six months.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 19:14
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Originally Posted by kungfu panda
Well, yes and no. What They're going to need is experienced Widebody, longhaul Captains who will fly with relatively inexperienced Saudi First Officers. They're not going to be looking for Capt. Joe Bloggs from Ryanair.
If what I suggest will be the initial offer does not attract sufficient of the right candidates then obviously they'll up that offer. They will believe commuting to be very attractive though.
I think you should remember that many drivers kicked out of DXB during covid, are now flying for european LCCs. Not only joe blogss here mate.
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Old 9th Nov 2022, 07:46
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Originally Posted by Giuff
I think you should remember that many drivers kicked out of DXB during covid, are now flying for european LCCs. Not only joe blogss here mate.
I imagine LCC, Widebody, longhaul experienced Capt. Bloggs will be very welcome.

It'll all come down to Widebody, longhaul and Captain.

No disrespect meant.

And by the way, I agree with Sky Hooker.
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