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Emirates vs 5G US

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Emirates vs 5G US

Old 18th Jan 2022, 23:10
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EK suspends 9 US destinations (5G)

https://www.airlive.net/breaking-emi...5g-deployment/

EK is having a few issues lately with the IAD event, and a 777 take-off abort, after no take-off clearance was given, to avoid another 777 crossing the runway. An over abundance of caution to prevent further events, perhaps?

EK is displaying the typical EK playbook by suspending flights where the 5G issue is not really a factor, unless the weather is below CAT I mins, and keeping the JFK flight ($$$) where an RNP AR approach is common (and affected by 5G)
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 23:34
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Originally Posted by pilotguy1222 View Post
https://www.airlive.net/breaking-emi...5g-deployment/

EK is having a few issues lately with the IAD event, and a 777 take-off abort, after no take-off clearance was given, to avoid another 777 crossing the runway. An over abundance of caution to prevent further events, perhaps?

EK is displaying the typical EK playbook by suspending flights where the 5G issue is not really a factor, unless the weather is below CAT I mins, and keeping the JFK flight ($$$) where an RNP AR approach is common (and affected by 5G)
Rumour has it that Boeing have advised airlines that B777 op to LAX are not approved for the time being?
Anybody able to confirm this?
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 00:47
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Nothing to do with EK's 'issues' - such a cheapshot. Other airlines, such as JAL, American, Air India and British Airways have also cancelled 777 flights into USA for the same reason.
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 02:58
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Emirates vs 5G US

Either concerns over 5G is true or flights today america weren’t yielding enough profit https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...ns-2022-01-18/
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 03:43
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Originally Posted by pilotguy1222 View Post
https://www.airlive.net/breaking-emi...5g-deployment/

EK is having a few issues lately with the IAD event, and a 777 take-off abort, after no take-off clearance was given, to avoid another 777 crossing the runway. An over abundance of caution to prevent further events, perhaps?

EK is displaying the typical EK playbook by suspending flights where the 5G issue is not really a factor, unless the weather is below CAT I mins, and keeping the JFK flight ($$$) where an RNP AR approach is common (and affected by 5G)
So you don't believe in being prudent and safety first then?
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 04:23
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Originally Posted by pilotguy1222 View Post
https://www.airlive.net/breaking-emi...5g-deployment/

EK is displaying the typical EK playbook by suspending flights where the 5G issue is not really a factor, unless the weather is below CAT I mins, and keeping the JFK flight ($$$) where an RNP AR approach is common (and affected by 5G)
JFK, LAX and IAD is operated by the A380. I am lead to believe that they have different equipment so the A380 is not affected, or has the approved equipment.
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 06:03
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KLM only flies to IAD and ATL with its 777’s effective immediately. All other airfields in the usa are off limits to our 777’s. Autolands prohibited.
Affected systems mentioned are:
autopilot, autothrottle, tcas, engine control, flight controls, egpws, tailstrike protection.
Source: internal memo
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 08:14
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Knowing a thing or two about transatlantic markets, no doubt all these airlines jumped at the opportunity to cancel selected flights without having to admit commercial reasons, 5G was a godsend excuse. Having lived through the Y2K panic and the claims of 'deadly' interference by 1G/2G mobile phones in the nineties, I'll just lean back and reach for the popcorn.
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 09:10
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Originally Posted by fox niner View Post
KLM only flies to IAD and ATL with its 777’s effective immediately. All other airfields in the usa are off limits to our 777’s. Autolands prohibited.
Affected systems mentioned are:
autopilot, autothrottle, tcas, engine control, flight controls, egpws, tailstrike protection.
Source: internal memo
Is the 787 not affected? In any case it is a good thing that KLM kept the A330's...
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 14:05
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Probably both...
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 14:30
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5g worldwide?

Isn’t 5G deployed in several regions worldwide. Dubai as I recall? No issue outside the US? Just curious. Anyone care to clarify. Thanks
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 14:33
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Apparently 5G roll-out delayed 2 weeks. It's a gong show tbh as there has been almost no real research into the potential effects on RADALT systems. Telecom companies have spent billions worldwide buying frequency blocks adjacent to the 4.2-4.4 MHz band RADALTs work in. The RTCA paper (Oct 20) makes for an informative read, biggest so-what is that the interference filtering/blocking varies significantly between system and a/c type, requiring long and laborious testing...something the system and a/c manufacturers are loathed to do as they'd be on the hook for costs. Here in the frozen north TCCA have established both Exclusion and Restricted zones around airports/heliports that have CAT I/II/III approaches. The AD pushed out by the FAA includes RNP approaches too, and could see the 'Not Allowed' being applied to approaches at 80 CONUS airports in the event the weather drops below 1/2 SM vis etc. Blancolirio has just put a reasonable YooToob vid out, give it a watch.
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 14:42
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Originally Posted by pilotguy 1222
keeping the JFK flight ($$$) where an RNP AR approach is common (and affected by 5G)
The three daily JFK flights from DXB are currently all operated with the 380. And we don’t currently fly RNP AR approaches on that aeroplane!
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 14:43
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Originally Posted by KATLPAX View Post
Isn’t 5G deployed in several regions worldwide. Dubai as I recall? No issue outside the US? Just curious. Anyone care to clarify. Thanks
In most areas the used frequency is different and therefor less likely to interfere.
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 14:54
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Originally Posted by daelight View Post
Nothing to do with EK's 'issues' - such a cheapshot. Other airlines, such as JAL, American, Air India and British Airways have also cancelled 777 flights into USA for the same reason.
I am quite happy to take cheap shots at EK, and considering the aborted takeoff a little over a week ago was a near 2nd “Tenerife” with a pair of 777-300s, they are well earned.

EK could easily make the flights “Wx dependent”. Unless CAT II/III is a possibility, there is no reason to cancel every flight. As far as I am aware, none of the US airports listed use SA CAT I approaches, so unless low vis ops are active, there is no concern.
As another mentioned, the 380 might have different RA’s and 5G is not an issue, which would then make the JFK RNP AR approach list. The 320 family(CEO and NEO) are affected.

Considering BA just flew a flight to the US with a single passenger onboard, andrasz is probably spot on.

5G is all over the world. Here is a map.
https://www.nperf.com/en/map/5g


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Old 19th Jan 2022, 15:55
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Originally Posted by pilotguy1222 View Post
I am quite happy to take cheap shots at EK, and considering the aborted takeoff a little over a week ago was a near 2nd “Tenerife” with a pair of 777-300s, they are well earned.

EK could easily make the flights “Wx dependent”. Unless CAT II/III is a possibility, there is no reason to cancel every flight. As far as I am aware, none of the US airports listed use SA CAT I approaches, so unless low vis ops are active, there is no concern.
As another mentioned, the 380 might have different RA’s and 5G is not an issue, which would then make the JFK RNP AR approach list. The 320 family(CEO and NEO) are affected.

Considering BA just flew a flight to the US with a single passenger onboard, andrasz is probably spot on.

5G is all over the world. Here is a map.
https://www.nperf.com/en/map/5g
EK is now flying some of those recently stopped destinations on the A380 to look after the passenger who had flights cancelled.
So looks like this 5G thing may be more of a problem on the Boeing.
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 15:59
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Given 5G has been implemented in many places all over the world without problems, why are they using these frequencies in the US?
Is it a different kind of 5G?
And how did it get this far without the issue of interference being addressed?

What a shambles
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 16:12
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Thanks Stranger, I had read US iPhones were different w additional 5g band.
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 16:16
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Originally Posted by pilotguy1222 View Post
5G is all over the world. Here is a map.https://www.nperf.com/en/map/5g
But most of that 5G is not in C band.
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 16:26
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So looks like this 5G thing may be more of a problem on the Boeing.
Someone who apparently know more just explained me this is more a problem on the 777 as on this model the radar altimeter is used for many functions including one that activate flight controls incl reverses when it confirms a/c is on the ground . ( someone in the know can confirm or infirm that). But I cannot understand is how this problem surfaces today in the US. . I was attending an ICAO meeting in 2019, almost 3 years ago, where this issue was flagged, (possible frequency overlap and location 5G masts under flight path runways) by France. and mitigations plans were being drawn.

I am quite happy to take cheap shots at EK, and considering the aborted takeoff a little over a week ago was a near 2nd “Tenerife” with a pair of 777-300s, they are well earned.
We do not know the full details of that case, so unless you have them and are prepared to share them with us, comparing the incident to Tenerife is somewhat overdone I would say.
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