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Has the Middle East Peaked as a Hub ?

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Has the Middle East Peaked as a Hub ?

Old 8th Jun 2020, 13:39
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by krismiler
support three mega carriers all chasing the same market, an EK/EY merger would make sense, even just code sharing
Iíve lost track of how many times youíve touted this over the last two months? Any reason for the obsessive posting about EK/EY? Personally I donít see it ever happening........
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 16:15
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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I was just pulling your leg
Originally Posted by aviation_enthus View Post
HAHAHAHA!!! Whatever mate. ĎCause anyone that disagrees with the original post is a paid troll??

Iíll make it simple for you:

Any airline based in the Middle East has similar advantages. Look at the history of Iran Air pre 1979 and youíll see these things never change. The problem is the countries theyíre based in arenít as stable or nice as Singapore (and the old Hong Kong).
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 00:33
  #23 (permalink)  
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Iíve lost track of how many times youíve touted this over the last two months? Any reason for the obsessive posting about EK/EY? Personally I donít see it ever happening........
If nationalistic pride wouldn't allow a merger, which would effectively be an EK take over of EY, then code sharing and an alliance would make sense particularly at the moment. Co-ordinate schedules, a full B777 for each airline is better than two half empty ones each, uneconomic routes for two might be profitable for one, connection times could be minimised and even if an airport transfer is needed the two hubs aren't that far apart. DWC reduces that distance even further.

Allow FF mile usage between either airline and lounge access to the other partners facilities. Both airlines are of a similar high standard so arriving at the airport and finding your flight is being operated by the other partner wouldn't bother the pax. An alliance would strengthen both airlines and it's difficult to find reasons against the idea, even QR are in one. EK already partner with QF, and EY have numerous code shares with other airlines. With everything put together, a ME alliance could rival the current OneWorld/Star Alliance/Skyteam trio and strengthen the regions hub position.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 16:33
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
If nationalistic pride wouldn't allow a merger, which would effectively be an EK take over of EY, ...................
This is just too funny, EK effectively taking over EY! Dubai is the very poor cousin of Abu Dhabi and in fact I think Abu Dhabi made a loan to EK just recently, which is also what happened during the GFC. Abu Dhabi has nearly all the oil and the gas, which is why EK was started, to diversify its economy.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 23:36
  #25 (permalink)  
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Abu Dhabi has the money but Dubai has the Emirates brand recognition. EK was profitable where as EY was losing billions. Almost all of EYs investments in foreign airlines have lost money. In the extremely unlikely event of a merger, which name would be retained and which management team would run the new entity ?
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 00:28
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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No. You said a TAKEOVER, not naming or brand recognition. If they were to merge it will be Abu Dhabi that would in the drivers seat. And it would be because EK has no cash.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 01:01
  #27 (permalink)  
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Abu Dhabi would be in the back seat of the limo smoking a cigar, EK would be in the driver's seat wearing a peaked cap and dealing with the traffic. Unlikely to happen but at the moment, who knows ?

Even if they just codeshare and co-ordinate the schedules so they don't compete head on with each other, the benefits to each side would be enormous.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 02:20
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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That I would agree with, but it would not be under EK branding. Have a look at any takeover and that's what it would be, and you will see that the company doing the taking over wins the day when it comes to naming. There may be dual branding for a while, but eventually it would be EY. EGO.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 04:03
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Having worked for both airlines I would have to disagree with that. EK through their years of sports sponsorship have become a world renowned brand - EY are unknown outside of aviation. Abu Dhabi has pumped Billions into EY to try and replicate the brand success at EK but totally failed. So if a merger is on the cards (and I can see the issues with local egos) then it will because it is a last throw of the dice and even Abu Dhabi are not going to throw away even more money on a failed enterprise.

Emirates is after all what Abu Dhabi and Dubai are both part of - it's not as though EK is called Fly Dubai...
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 06:53
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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So what your saying is that Al Nahyan is going to take the loss of face and merge EY into EK, with their branding, when he has no financial reason to do so, i.e. he can afford to continue to pour money down the toilet, while Maktoum looks like the winner and is the one who actually needs the money. Yeah, nah!

My guess is no merger, but another loan to EK to tide them over.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 20:25
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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For any potential merger, first you'd need to get past the egos and willy waving about EK having the stronger brand and EY having the cash (well the AD govt having the cash - EY has basically been a cash furnace) and all the machinations of what it would be called - United Emirates?

The next issue is simply one of logistics in that Dubai and Abu Dhabi airports are still a relatively long way from each other. Would AD pax want to drive to Dubai to fly to Paris, or New York? Or would Dubai pax want to have to schlep to AD to fly to Manila? There would still be a lot of replication at each hub. You could shift all the DXB flying to DWC to move things closer to AD but it's still well over an hour to downtown from there, as well as being less convenient for DXB pax.

Smarter minds than mine would have to figure out how the flying program would work with two hubs so far apart. One option would be to have say a DXB-AUH-LHR or CDG-AUH-DXB routing that loops in both hubs but flying widebodies on short hops like this is horribly inefficient. Not to mention that it would be impossible to tag an additional AUH rotation on the end of a LAX-DXB sector without a fresh crew. Shhh, I shouldn't give them ideas.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 04:32
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps a high speed rail between the airports?
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 13:21
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Glider, Itís always a good idea not to post when inebriated. If you are from the U.K. your English language is very poor.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 13:33
  #34 (permalink)  
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37 K for Wizz Air. You have to be making this up. You could not live on 37k in the ME .. or probably anywhere else . If itís true .. the race to the bottom has truely begun.
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 11:36
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I think the most difficult part for the ME carriers is that Asia is practically closed. China, India, Thailand Australia made the bulk of the passengers. With these countries closed and Africa were the virus just begins to spread it will be extremely difficult to fill an A380 or even a B777.
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 13:04
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyingCroc View Post
I think the most difficult part for the ME carriers is that Asia is practically closed. China, India, Thailand Australia made the bulk of the passengers. With these countries closed and Africa were the virus just begins to spread it will be extremely difficult to fill an A380 or even a B777.
True, but at some point the virus will end either by a vaccine or just burning itself out - then the natural advantages associated with of location of the ME will reassert themselves. The airlines in the ME didnt grow into what they were by accident, there were specific reasons that made that growth possible and those reasons remain.

That being said, when they do come back I doubt that we will see the return of the generous 'expat' packages that we have seen in the past - I suspect that the present pay cuts will be with us for many years to come and will become the new normal.
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 10:21
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Middle East airlines are suffering a lot because of the covid consequences and, thanks to the latest wrong decisions of various governments (see useless quarantine and useless restrictions) the loss will go deeper in the next months, that being said I think that there is no comparison with any other airlines in the world, those ME carriers are the best option for travellers in terms of quality, safety and network so I guess they will never stop being the most convenient option for years to come, once the crisis is gone (nobody knows exaclty when) they'll go back stronger than before because they have the capitals to do so (like Qatar with endless money) and they will pick up all the passengers of the failed airlines.
Some of them will suffer more than others (see Emirates) because of the wrong fleet choice, way too many A380's that are amazing for passengers but a blood bath for Airlines, they were ok 10 years ago but 115 of them ??? Come on...
Unfortunately the package for pilots will not be the same for a while, unless things recover faster than anticipated but the damage is unfortunately done.
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 11:04
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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I think that there is no comparison with any other airlines in the world, those ME carriers are the best option for travellers in terms of quality, safety and network so I guess they will never stop being the most convenient option for years to come
No mate. It is cost and geographical location that makes the ME carriers sometimes the best option.

Long haul business travel will be the hardest hit. That will be a serious issue for any airline that relies on this segment, but probably even more for the ME3.

However the ME3 will continue to be a hub. Maybe not as huge as it was a few months ago. Maybe we see one airline not continuing under its current name or in its current form. Nevertheless the hub function will stay.
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 16:11
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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I agree, theyíll continue to operate at a reduced pace, nobody knows for how long but among the three, considering that all of them are not making any profit ( except for Cargo ) since a long time, the only one with a better fleet and with more money is Qatar Airways, Emirates is too big and has the most uneconomical fleet of all, Ethiad is a mess, Saudia is a complete disaster.
When passengers will start traveling again, for business or pleasure theyíll chose the best option, price and quality wise and no airline in the world can compete with them.
only time will tell.... Letís wait and see.
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 18:07
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure about that. Both airlines have similar fleet sizes but Qatar have 6 different types in service compared with only 2 for EK thus leaving them with much larger fixed costs and inflexibility. Average age of the fleet isn't a lot different either at 6 and 7 years. OK presently EK cannot fill the A380 but given the size of the 777 fleet it will be a long time before they run out of capacity on any route.
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