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Qatar QCAA EASA Rules

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Qatar QCAA EASA Rules

Old 10th Dec 2018, 22:02
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Qatar QCAA EASA Rules

Understand QR adopting new absolute limits of EASA with three crew max FDP 17 hours from Jan 01. Means most US and Aus flights three crew . Is that true?
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 01:14
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Sure is! Interesting times ahead.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 02:34
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EASA FTL with the good ole factored flight time bonus
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 03:41
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On 777 fleet BOS, ATL, IAD, YUL and ORD become 3 man ops. IAH, DFW, LAX should stay at 4.

Add this to factoring so you’re in for a treat.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 08:59
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It doesn't sound too bad to me, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not sure whether I've understood the new regulations correctly. Here's my take:

Good stuff:
- Mandatory day off with two local nights after every far east flight, this is a huge improvement as the worst thing about the rosters are the back to back far easts which are detrimental to our health and family life. I think the rosters will become more stable as the SBY offers much less flexibility for night flights out of Doha. Also less double offs downroute as they will require more off days at home. Less cargo mess.

- Mandatory 2 days off with 3 local nights after the above mentioned 3 man far wests. Before, it was just rest time equal to previous FDP. IMO a huge improvement except for less rest inflight but I don't mind. I'll gladly do 1 hour extra of controlled rest and have more off days at home.

- Less deadheading for IRP, as you can go 3 guys ut and 3 guys home more often instead of 4/3. More hours in the book and better salary.

- More rest after long cargo patterns with big time zone difference. Might turn into some form of commuting option.

- More logging of stick hours ie. less factoring of hours. For example: Two US flights will give around 40 factored hours instead of 30 per month (120 hours of difference per year provided 2 long flights per month on average).

Bad stuff:
- 3 man operation, less rest inflight. Flights to America won't be much harder but the return is not gonna be an easy one. The rest split for the return has to be decided at the office so everyone can arrange their naps accordingly for the layover. I try not to go there anyway who likes non SI measurements and to tip everyone anyways?

- With more off days given because of mandatory rest, I'm not sure whether the golden offs will continue as it is not in the contract. Hopefully this will make incentive for them to start giving the commuting guys commuting contracts.

- Possibly 3 man return flights to Europe instead of layovers. Not sure whether these will give mandatory days off after returning since the time difference is small. Having dinner in Spain, Paris and Brussels is nice!

My only worry is losing the block OFFs, other than that I think these new rules will be positive for our family life, less fatigue and health.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 14:02
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How about the "reserve" ...
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 14:57
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Join Date: Jul 2001
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Originally Posted by APU_inop View Post
It doesn't sound too bad to me, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not sure whether I've understood the new regulations correctly. Here's my take:

Good stuff:
- Mandatory day off with two local nights after every far east flight, this is a huge improvement as the worst thing about the rosters are the back to back far easts which are detrimental to our health and family life. I think the rosters will become more stable as the SBY offers much less flexibility for night flights out of Doha. Also less double offs downroute as they will require more off days at home. Less cargo mess.

- Mandatory 2 days off with 3 local nights after the above mentioned 3 man far wests. Before, it was just rest time equal to previous FDP. IMO a huge improvement except for less rest inflight but I don't mind. I'll gladly do 1 hour extra of controlled rest and have more off days at home.

- Less deadheading for IRP, as you can go 3 guys ut and 3 guys home more often instead of 4/3. More hours in the book and better salary.

- More rest after long cargo patterns with big time zone difference. Might turn into some form of commuting option.

- More logging of stick hours ie. less factoring of hours. For example: Two US flights will give around 40 factored hours instead of 30 per month (120 hours of difference per year provided 2 long flights per month on average).

Bad stuff:
- 3 man operation, less rest inflight. Flights to America won't be much harder but the return is not gonna be an easy one. The rest split for the return has to be decided at the office so everyone can arrange their naps accordingly for the layover. I try not to go there anyway who likes non SI measurements and to tip everyone anyways?

- With more off days given because of mandatory rest, I'm not sure whether the golden offs will continue as it is not in the contract. Hopefully this will make incentive for them to start giving the commuting guys commuting contracts.

- Possibly 3 man return flights to Europe instead of layovers. Not sure whether these will give mandatory days off after returning since the time difference is small. Having dinner in Spain, Paris and Brussels is nice!

My only worry is losing the block OFFs, other than that I think these new rules will be positive for our family life, less fatigue and health.
The rest split for the return has to be decided at the office so everyone can arrange their naps accordingly for the layover. I try not to go there anyway who likes non SI measurements and to tip everyone anyways?
Just say that again please the Office (you mean HQ) or a sleep scientist has to decide the rest splits? And you might need to explain in English non SI measurements and to tip everyone?
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 17:09
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Just a quick question. In EASA no factoring, all time spent on board including rest is counted towards FDP and also flight time is from chock to chock.Those are used for the purpose of FTL determination. Is that the case since that will mean the absolute limits of 100/28 will be reached quite fast (max three Long haul flights a month).
Glad this appears to be an “improvement” to the guys at QR. Not quite sure the sentiment is shared by all.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 17:43
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Originally Posted by Mr Angry from Purley View Post
Just say that again please the Office (you mean HQ) or a sleep scientist has to decide the rest splits? And you might need to explain in English non SI measurements and to tip everyone?
"The International System of Units (SI, abbreviated from the French Système international (d'unités)) is the modern form of the metric system, and is the most widely used system of measurement."
Try the english wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...ystem_of_Units

Tipping is when you have to pay 20-25% more than you're supposed to unless you want to be stabbed or beaten with whatever the waiter has handy.

With the term "office" I mean at dispatch area, preflight. It is decided by the operating crew.
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 17:47
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Originally Posted by babyjet787 View Post
Just a quick question. In EASA no factoring, all time spent on board including rest is counted towards FDP and also flight time is from chock to chock.Those are used for the purpose of FTL determination. Is that the case since that will mean the absolute limits of 100/28 will be reached quite fast (max three Long haul flights a month).
Glad this appears to be an “improvement” to the guys at QR. Not quite sure the sentiment is shared by all.
The hours have always been factored with the new difference being that they have to give more rest post flight. That's the reason why I think that it is a slight improvement.
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Old 12th Dec 2018, 15:11
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Originally Posted by APU_inop View Post
"The International System of Units (SI, abbreviated from the French Système international (d'unités)) is the modern form of the metric system, and is the most widely used system of measurement."
Try the english wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...ystem_of_Units

Tipping is when you have to pay 20-25% more than you're supposed to unless you want to be stabbed or beaten with whatever the waiter has handy.

With the term "office" I mean at dispatch area, preflight. It is decided by the operating crew.
Thanks APU I think I get what your saying. I'll never make a Nigel (Pilot)
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 08:34
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New Insights

From Another thread doscussion
1. EASA FTL predicated on full hours (chock to chock ) not “loggable hours” as proposed by QR which will lead to more flying, longer inseat time , less rest. If it is to be implemented and have the impact it is envisioned to have, it has to be adopted as is without changes because it defeats the whole purpose of the scheme.

2 No Legal Days off. New scheme has no provision for days off as alleged. Days off doesn’t exist. The former requirement of 2 consecutive days off in any 14 consecutive days and minimum 7 in consecutive 4 weeks not available anymore.
Only comparison is Recurrent Extended rest periods which are 36 hours, including two local nights twice every month. As as long as you have the minimum rest you can fly!

3. Rest after eastwards flights or long cargo trips. This is defined as local night, not off days (which doesn’t exist in new scheme ) and local night is 8 hours between 22:00 and 0800 , so technically one can be rostered to fly again (turnarounds for eg) as long as you return before midnight and get your 8 hours !

4. New FTL talk about 17 hours FDP three crew with class one rest. Means no more ULR expxcept maybe AKL ( IAH, DFW, LAX, GRU, MIA) all can be done with three crew.

Very powerful tool tool and will make interesting times for the QR crews in the months and years ahead.




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Old 6th Jan 2019, 03:13
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Have they implemented the new FDTL? If yes how is it?
​​​​​​I'm interested to know about 777 rosters.

Thanks
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 19:11
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Originally Posted by Skyblade View Post
Have they implemented the new FDTL? If yes how is it?
​​​​​​I'm interested to know about 777 rosters.

Thanks
Give it a few months to settle down- Crewing bugs to be ironed out etc. March/April I would guess is time for an assessment on our lives.
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 12:09
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Smile

Originally Posted by CDRW View Post
Give it a few months to settle down- Crewing bugs to be ironed out etc. March/April I would guess is time for an assessment on our lives.
Thanks...
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 00:25
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How would this work for the longer cargo flights?
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 05:11
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Just to clarify. This is not a complete copy and paste. The new FTLs are QCAA which are based on EASA FTLs.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 09:11
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Originally Posted by CDRW View Post
Give it a few months to settle down- Crewing bugs to be ironed out etc. March/April I would guess is time for an assessment on our lives.
Do we really need a few months to figure out that flights like GRU-DOH, IAH, ORD, SYD, etc... will be crewed by 3 pilots instead of 4 to make an assessment if this is good or bad for our heath and lifestyle?
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 07:36
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Join Date: May 2018
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There is always a few Pelicans who will try to find some bit of good out of a quite frankly dismal situation. No money in the world is worth 3 crew operation for 15 hours.

I have no regrets about leaving.
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 09:00
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Originally Posted by Ramen View Post
There is always a few Pelicans who will try to find some bit of good out of a quite frankly dismal situation. No money in the world is worth 3 crew operation for 15 hours.

I have no regrets about leaving.
It’s frightening. I was already avoiding US flight as much as I could.

I believe that EK did the same last year but it only lasted for a couple of months because of dozens of fatigue report being submitted.

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