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EK pilot shortage admitted by TC

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Old 15th Apr 2018, 10:11
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BANANASBANANAS View Post
In theory, yes. But the way these things tend to go is that, first, the relevant tax authority decides you are resident for tax purposes and, secondly, there is resistance to the reverse rostering system by, and representation from, other unionised airlines who feel that their members jobs, terms, conditions and benefits are at risk of being undercut by non union airlines operating from within their country - even though it may be called reverse rostering.

Before you know where you are, either an employee has decided to try to claim the protection of the local labor laws, or other airline union representation has forced the reverse rostering practice to be cancelled.

The only airline I know that seems to make a success of it is Korean who, correct me if I am wrong, pay your Korean tax for you. As income in UAE is still (for the moment) tax free, there is likely to be a substantial tax burden on reverse rostered bases and people who pay tax tend to demand representation.
Reverse rostering is nothing more than offering extended layovers, as ones base remains unchanged. There is no change to ones employment terms and conditions nor protection (or lack of) from any union. Taxation affairs will still be up to the individual to declare and it is very feasible that one may not live in the same country where they end or start their reversed pairing anyway.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 08:24
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Emma Royds View Post
Reverse rostering is nothing more than offering extended layovers, as ones base remains unchanged. There is no change to ones employment terms and conditions nor protection (or lack of) from any union. Taxation affairs will still be up to the individual to declare and it is very feasible that one may not live in the same country where they end or start their reversed pairing anyway.
yeah, that's what I thought...
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 09:55
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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I guess it comes down to where your reserve rostered 'base' is and what the financial and other factors might be.

Certainly can work in theory.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 18:46
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Stupid thing is we ARE short and NOBODY is doing anything constructive about it or telling us how they are going to remedy it! Headless chickens running around EGHQ pointing fingers in between visits to Costa!
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 21:13
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Joker11 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mango View Post
Qantas says it has issues crewing the B737, but if you apply to Qantas and pass the interview process you become a SO. If they needed pilots they would at least offer direct entry FO as a minimum?

If applying to Lufthansa, I bet you if eligible, a position as FO with German Wings or other Lufthansa LCC offshoot would be offered. I don't think you will be flying for the legacy carrier?

Yes. You go direct to Eurowings. Austria was hiring for their fleet and Swiss just got new labour contracts.
For the record, LH classic/mainline is taking on all the hundreds of cadets they've placed with their subsidiaries at Swiss/Edelweiss/Austrian if they choose to come back (most do of course). I know a few who have gotten their joining dates for this year, both on LH Cargo and mainline.
Problem is they've got enough supply with the couple of hundred ex-LH cadet pilots ("NFFs") to fill their mainline needs, so all applying who didn't train with them are going to go to Eurowings on a different contract.

Still, there's a noticeable shortage here even with the majors. At my airline we're seeing things that usually don't happen. F/Os quitting one major to join another. F/Os quitting in general to go work somewhere else. Never happened in the past years.
Austrian is facing a crewing problem, Swiss is taking direct entry type-rated F/Os onto the A320 because their in-house cadets can't cover demand and training time isn't sufficient and Edelweiss is recruiting heavily for direct-entry F/Os and CMDs also, facing a shortage.

It's a pilot's market here at the moment, even with the majors. Get on the train while you can (and if you're fluent in German... lol).
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 22:18
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by INNflight View Post
For the record, LH classic/mainline is taking on all the hundreds of cadets they've placed with their subsidiaries at Swiss/Edelweiss/Austrian if they choose to come back (most do of course). I know a few who have gotten their joining dates for this year, both on LH Cargo and mainline.
Problem is they've got enough supply with the couple of hundred ex-LH cadet pilots ("NFFs") to fill their mainline needs, so all applying who didn't train with them are going to go to Eurowings on a different contract.

Still, there's a noticeable shortage here even with the majors. At my airline we're seeing things that usually don't happen. F/Os quitting one major to join another. F/Os quitting in general to go work somewhere else. Never happened in the past years.
Austrian is facing a crewing problem, Swiss is taking direct entry type-rated F/Os onto the A320 because their in-house cadets can't cover demand and training time isn't sufficient and Edelweiss is recruiting heavily for direct-entry F/Os and CMDs also, facing a shortage.

It's a pilot's market here at the moment, even with the majors. Get on the train while you can (and if you're fluent in German... lol).
Lufthansa's outlook is that they will run out of their already trained cadets by the end of 2019/early 2020. Most of them are returning from Austrian and Eurowings.

Lufthansa Airline is plannig to recruit 120 new cadets for the year of 2020. First batch started just last week next one will fallow in june.
They are having a bad time filling up these courses tho as most people are scared to end up at Austrian Airlines or Eurowings Europe where the whole package isn't as good as at Lufthansa. Over the past months they improved the package for cadets and are even paying a signing bonus for cadets starting 2018.
Lufthansa has a big demand because of not recruiting as they used to do the past years and would love to have all cadets flying as of right now but obviously because od training capacity that's not possible.

Most of the Airlines at the Lufthansa Group have a huge demand right now because so many people from the group Airlines are returning back to Lufthansa Airlines.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 23:04
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BANANASBANANAS View Post
In theory, yes. But the way these things tend to go is that, first, the relevant tax authority decides you are resident for tax purposes and, secondly, there is resistance to the reverse rostering system by, and representation from, other unionised airlines who feel that their members jobs, terms, conditions and benefits are at risk of being undercut by non union airlines operating from within their country - even though it may be called reverse rostering.

Before you know where you are, either an employee has decided to try to claim the protection of the local labor laws, or other airline union representation has forced the reverse rostering practice to be cancelled.

The only airline I know that seems to make a success of it is Korean who, correct me if I am wrong, pay your Korean tax for you. As income in UAE is still (for the moment) tax free, there is likely to be a substantial tax burden on reverse rostered bases and people who pay tax tend to demand representation.
I do agree with you, there are a lot of problems that could arise, but European Airlines are masters at avoiding laws, labour shopping, undermining the unions etc, What do you thing about Emma Royds smart suggestion? Layover for 7 days? Is it legally possible? Of course when it comes to paying tax its every man for himself, that is a personal issue, some will avoid some will pay.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 23:09
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by glofish View Post

One thing is for sure: The local mentality does not know what win-win effectively means. They really believe that if someone else wins only a tiny little bit, it must have been taken away from their own win.

Stupidity is the last thing that gets extinct.

LMAO
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 23:54
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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While reverse rostering may mean a win for some. It will just be yet another rostering restriction for others.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 15:46
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/n...shortage-hurts
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 03:35
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by donpizmeov View Post
While reverse rostering may mean a win for some. It will just be yet another rostering restriction for others.
thats why the "others" would not be required to bid it..
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 06:15
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fat Busdriver View Post
I do agree with you, there are a lot of problems that could arise, but European Airlines are masters at avoiding laws, labour shopping, undermining the unions etc, What do you thing about Emma Royds smart suggestion? Layover for 7 days? Is it legally possible? Of course when it comes to paying tax its every man for himself, that is a personal issue, some will avoid some will pay.
Perfectly legal. Many countries aip let crew enter on a gendec for up to 30 days. You can look it up!
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 15:02
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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What´s the latest on the nameless guys from across the road, are they still not allowed to apply? Seems like a bit of a waste for all involved !
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 15:28
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Quite simple, the guys down South have been offered 12-18 months unpaid leave. For it to make any financial investment sense, EK as a minimum would want them to sign 3 year bond. Similar to the QF guys.
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 15:29
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ironbutt57 View Post
thats why the "others" would not be required to bid it..
But I am thinking places where people would like to reverse roster from may be some of the more popular destinations. Reducing the roster satisfaction of the many for the few that get the reverse roster option. That ain't gonna work to decrease attrition.
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