EK207 Jfk
Join Date: Sep 2015
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DID I Miss something,
according to the last FCI we can talk the plane to the ground.
I thought we shall fly it , that must be a new feature on board - so back to the books
need to find out how to use the voice module
according to the last FCI we can talk the plane to the ground.
I thought we shall fly it , that must be a new feature on board - so back to the books
need to find out how to use the voice module
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Blingland
Age: 56
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I am hearing that the EK207 Augmented crew have been fired as well, what does anyone know?!
I would be unbelievably annoyed if this is the case
If so, time to file an ASR every LRV/Augment flight, as I cannot comply with the new Augmented crew requirements of monitoing, not on duty etc, etc,etc.
SyB
I would be unbelievably annoyed if this is the case
If so, time to file an ASR every LRV/Augment flight, as I cannot comply with the new Augmented crew requirements of monitoing, not on duty etc, etc,etc.
SyB
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Earth, where else?
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I am hearing that the EK207 Augmented crew have been fired as well, what does anyone know?!
I would be unbelievably annoyed if this is the case
If so, time to file an ASR every LRV/Augment flight, as I cannot comply with the new Augmented crew requirements of monitoing, not on duty etc, etc,etc.
SyB
I would be unbelievably annoyed if this is the case
If so, time to file an ASR every LRV/Augment flight, as I cannot comply with the new Augmented crew requirements of monitoing, not on duty etc, etc,etc.
SyB
Join Date: Oct 2016
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Warning for what? What can you possibly see from the FOs back seat apart from the view out the side window???? (Speaking from 777 but would be curious to know if same for the 380?)
Pretty sad state of affairs if true.
Pretty sad state of affairs if true.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
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Oh, wait...
The Deltoids may be prima donnas but they would shut the airline down.
Join Date: Oct 2015
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short flights long nights
So if you are in the bunk when something happens, can you be fired for that?
And as far as these new procedures go...along with the obvious policy of termination for mistakes, ( lets ignore the fact that we are only humans, and prone to mistakes), I can see the whole thing ending up in a tight spiral dive ( if its not there already).
I can see crews so busy trying to comply with procedures so the don't end up sacked, that instead of doing what they are meant to be doing, flying the aircraft, they end up making a mistake because they are so worried about making a mistake...you can see where Im going with this...
In fact, I wonder if the poor guys on 207 fell to the above scenario, so busy trying to follow a procedure, so worried by the fear factor ( or as I called it..the constant Background Radiation), that the fear of NOT following the procedure, led them to NOT flying the aircraft..with the result.
The place is a complete train wreck...
Harry has been quiet.....
And as far as these new procedures go...along with the obvious policy of termination for mistakes, ( lets ignore the fact that we are only humans, and prone to mistakes), I can see the whole thing ending up in a tight spiral dive ( if its not there already).
I can see crews so busy trying to comply with procedures so the don't end up sacked, that instead of doing what they are meant to be doing, flying the aircraft, they end up making a mistake because they are so worried about making a mistake...you can see where Im going with this...
In fact, I wonder if the poor guys on 207 fell to the above scenario, so busy trying to follow a procedure, so worried by the fear factor ( or as I called it..the constant Background Radiation), that the fear of NOT following the procedure, led them to NOT flying the aircraft..with the result.
The place is a complete train wreck...
Harry has been quiet.....
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: MC80 Home One type Star Cruiser
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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Of the two main FCI’s that were issued as a result of the incident(s) - they have already been changed within days due 1) Feedback from trials in sim and 2) Feedback from crew.
Eh - shouldn’t you get feedback BEFORE you issue the FCI.
Amateur hour
Airbubba - whoosh....the sound of the point you missed.
Eh - shouldn’t you get feedback BEFORE you issue the FCI.
Amateur hour
Airbubba - whoosh....the sound of the point you missed.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Formerly resident of Knoteatingham
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Of the two main FCI’s that were issued as a result of the incident(s) - they have already been changed within days due 1) Feedback from trials in sim and 2) Feedback from crew.
Eh - shouldn’t you get feedback BEFORE you issue the FCI.
Amateur hour
Airbubba - whoosh....the sound of the point you missed.
Eh - shouldn’t you get feedback BEFORE you issue the FCI.
Amateur hour
Airbubba - whoosh....the sound of the point you missed.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 54
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Operating crew and augmenting captain have been fired. Augmenting fo - final written warning
Did #207 crew members in question fly back to Dxb after their incident?
If so that is a serious breach of safety practices. They were okay to fly one more leg but dangerous enough to be fired. If I was a passenger on the JFK-DXB leg with the pilots about to be fired I would be irate. The company is putting convenience ahead of my safety and the word should get out.
I know I’m getting ahead of myself if the crew was DHed back to Dubai but I would love to know the answer.
On another matter with the company were the pilots fired before or after their hearing?
Did #207 crew members in question fly back to Dxb after their incident?
If so that is a serious breach of safety practices. They were okay to fly one more leg but dangerous enough to be fired. If I was a passenger on the JFK-DXB leg with the pilots about to be fired I would be irate. The company is putting convenience ahead of my safety and the word should get out.
I know I’m getting ahead of myself if the crew was DHed back to Dubai but I would love to know the answer.
On another matter with the company were the pilots fired before or after their hearing?
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Tech note on A380 approach capability;
1. posts here about the chart/FMS structure of JFK 13L/R approaches are barking up the wrong tree. While JFK airport location & approach tracks required for 13L/R are far from ideal, the root-cause of a number of recent events is the inability of the A380 to be in normal APPROACH mode when on an FMS RF-leg. This means a cockpit 'work-around' (NAV-FPA or NAV-V/S) has to be used to provide internal guidance.
Internal FMS guidance can only help safety, when used properly.
Contrary to what some might tell you, there is currently no A380 technical hardware/software fix from the manufacturer to enable the A380 to fly in APPROACH mode on RF-legs, as the 13L/R approaches at JFK require to do everything the A320/330/340 & Boeing 777 can.
A true A380 fix would likely involve a new MMR (Multi-Mode-Receiver), FMS update + re certification (expensive in the millions of $$$). Some A380 operators use an Airbus FCOM work-around (purchased for extra money from Airbus) to enable 'Limited RNP-AR' operations, however it is not a true fix. Only paper, requires lots of unfamiliar FCU manipulation by pilots, setting FCU altitude to a very low height & leaves operator exposed to events of other nature. Pilots don't like it.
Also, the Airbus A380 FCOM 'work-around' procedure can only be used on a published RNP-AR approach (there aren't any at Nice, for example)
A320's, A330/A340 can all do RF-legs in APPROACH mode, as a matter of routine. This makes it a 'no-brainer' for the crew. Just let the machine do it laterally & vertically, monitor closely & disconnect autopilot on Final (about 400ft at JFK). Due to the above-mentioned design-weakness & over-reliance on the FLS concept by the manufacturer at the design stage, the A380 is deficient in this regard.
2. A380 operators are left struggling with this curved-approach flaw, and have to do the best they can to enable internal FMS guidance, while providing guidance to crew on how to minimize associated risks.
3. Fly the airplane, use FMS guidance as a GUIDE, look outside at the right time & don't make the classic mistake of thinking Rwy 13R at JFK is Rwy 13L. 13R is far more appealing because it's closer, even when on track for 13L. Many pilots have made that mistake. Please don't let it be you.
To re-iterate; contrary to what some might tell you, there is currently no A380 technical hardware/software fix from the manufacturer to enable the A380 to fly in APPROACH mode on RF-legs (as the 13L/R approaches at JFK require, in order to do everything the A320/330/340 & Boeing 777 can).
Let's hope the A380 manufacturer produces a true hardware/software fix so the A380 can fly curved approaches in APPROACH mode, like almost every other Airbus variant.
1. posts here about the chart/FMS structure of JFK 13L/R approaches are barking up the wrong tree. While JFK airport location & approach tracks required for 13L/R are far from ideal, the root-cause of a number of recent events is the inability of the A380 to be in normal APPROACH mode when on an FMS RF-leg. This means a cockpit 'work-around' (NAV-FPA or NAV-V/S) has to be used to provide internal guidance.
Internal FMS guidance can only help safety, when used properly.
Contrary to what some might tell you, there is currently no A380 technical hardware/software fix from the manufacturer to enable the A380 to fly in APPROACH mode on RF-legs, as the 13L/R approaches at JFK require to do everything the A320/330/340 & Boeing 777 can.
A true A380 fix would likely involve a new MMR (Multi-Mode-Receiver), FMS update + re certification (expensive in the millions of $$$). Some A380 operators use an Airbus FCOM work-around (purchased for extra money from Airbus) to enable 'Limited RNP-AR' operations, however it is not a true fix. Only paper, requires lots of unfamiliar FCU manipulation by pilots, setting FCU altitude to a very low height & leaves operator exposed to events of other nature. Pilots don't like it.
Also, the Airbus A380 FCOM 'work-around' procedure can only be used on a published RNP-AR approach (there aren't any at Nice, for example)
A320's, A330/A340 can all do RF-legs in APPROACH mode, as a matter of routine. This makes it a 'no-brainer' for the crew. Just let the machine do it laterally & vertically, monitor closely & disconnect autopilot on Final (about 400ft at JFK). Due to the above-mentioned design-weakness & over-reliance on the FLS concept by the manufacturer at the design stage, the A380 is deficient in this regard.
2. A380 operators are left struggling with this curved-approach flaw, and have to do the best they can to enable internal FMS guidance, while providing guidance to crew on how to minimize associated risks.
3. Fly the airplane, use FMS guidance as a GUIDE, look outside at the right time & don't make the classic mistake of thinking Rwy 13R at JFK is Rwy 13L. 13R is far more appealing because it's closer, even when on track for 13L. Many pilots have made that mistake. Please don't let it be you.
To re-iterate; contrary to what some might tell you, there is currently no A380 technical hardware/software fix from the manufacturer to enable the A380 to fly in APPROACH mode on RF-legs (as the 13L/R approaches at JFK require, in order to do everything the A320/330/340 & Boeing 777 can).
Let's hope the A380 manufacturer produces a true hardware/software fix so the A380 can fly curved approaches in APPROACH mode, like almost every other Airbus variant.
short flights long nights
It seems, no matter how good you are, or your previous excellent record, you really are only as good as your last sector.