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Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

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Old 23rd Dec 2016, 18:07
  #61 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Within
Posts: 333
When it comes to crime, people from the same country tend to group in mafias. We are talking about nationalities from the criminology (mafia) perspective. Nothing new there. There's Japanese mafia, Italian mafia, Serbian mafia (Pink Panthers are all Serbs although they cannot be classified as mafia), Albanian mafia, British mafia, Indian mafia etc. Don't misuse serious terms and people who are actual victims of racism and discrimination to prove your point. Find another argument. This one is false.
Nikita81 is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2016, 03:58
  #62 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 4,722
It doesn't help that there is a PPRuNe thread about how to leave EK with over 500 posts and a third of a million hits. Last time I looked, the header advert was for EK recruitment. You couldn't maker that up!

There is currently a pilot shortage and everyone is either struggling - or will be soon, to fill those pilot seats. The industry is making us more mobile with the gradual demise of seniority and common licences and we won't hang around with a sub-standard employer with poor Ts and Cs and poor employment conditions. EK is one of the company's which has created this situation and they are reaping what they sowed.

What I know of EK to be true mostly comes from people I know who work there (or used to work there more to the point) and - and if I was ever considering working in the ME, they wouldn't be my choice. Pilots talk to each other and we know where the best jobs are.
Dan Winterland is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2016, 07:12
  #63 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Earth
Posts: 82

From your posts, you work for Virgin Australia, you've applied to Qantas, and so the question is, if -

I don't work for EK, so I don't know the real story.....
.....why are you in the Middle East Forum commenting on things you know nothing about?

[p.s 90% of the comments posted here have an accuracy level of 80%. Take that from someone who is actually here. ]

Last edited by keepitrealok; 24th Dec 2016 at 11:51.
keepitrealok is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2016, 07:23
  #64 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Europe
Age: 41
Posts: 593
One could possibly argue, many of the people who end up working in the sandpit couldn't quite make it back in their home countries. Quite possibly through no fault of their own, but it is abundantly clear quite a lot got promoted way above their abilities, once they arrived in the GCC.

They say failed airline supervisors end up as airline managers, and that failed managers end up as directors, in hot and sandy places. I've seen quite a lot of that.
SMT Member is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2016, 10:26
  #65 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,920
Its Merry Christmas old fella. I hope you are having a good one.
donpizmeov is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2016, 14:09
  #66 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,187
Sealear - a general observation - reading previous posts by an author is a good idea because it helps establish the credibility, accuracy, and tone of the poster.
misd-agin is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2016, 15:24
  #67 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Up north
Posts: 39
I didn't apply thanks to PPRuNe. Most pilots know about EKs poor reputation these days. "Long haul Ryanair" is what several people have described it to me as being like.

Never listen to a friend either...they won't admit making the worse decision of their life.
recall_checked is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2016, 21:35
  #68 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,481
It wAs very good on the 330 15 years ago. Recommended mates to come until we got shafted by AAR in 08? ( 92 hrs) after that I said I could not bring myself to recommend to anyone! PPRuNe is not the problem EK is.
fatbus is online now  
Old 26th Dec 2016, 23:26
  #69 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: usa
Posts: 1,007
'09, in '08 we got a 12% pay raise and 14 week profit share.
fliion is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2016, 23:47
  #70 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by recall_checked View Post
"Long haul Ryanair" is what several people have described it to me as being like.
"Ultra long/Long/Medium/Short haul Ryanair" would be a more appropriate description.

And therein lies one of the biggest issues at EK, on the 777 fleet at least. We fly a hybrid mix of every kind of operation on a scale unlike anything that's ever been attempted elsewhere. Add into the mix the regular +95hr rosters averaging 8-9 days off a month and you can see how unsustainable the whole thing is. You're constantly pushed to the limit with frequent shifts from day to night flying and vice verse. There is simply not enough recovery time between trips resulting in a permanent state of tiredness or even fatigue which cannot be good for you, no matter how hard you try to maintain some kind of healthy lifestyle outside of work.

It's no wonder people are put off from applying when they hear this kind of thing. Problem is, the truth hurts! I most certainly could not honestly recommend anyone I know to join with things as they are at the moment. And while the fact they're trying to blame current recruitment issues on what is written here is undoubtedly pathetic, it is very much in keeping with what you'd expect from management in this part of the world. One of the reasons we're unlikely to see things change.
flyaway777 is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2016, 03:45
  #71 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 447
Unfortunately as much as we bleat, it does seem to be sustainable, for the airline at least. Its been going on for many years now and yet the flights still get flown.

Back in the mid 00s even when oil prices were high, the company was making money hand over fist, the pilots were happy, flights were full and it was the place to come. A few years later and some dubious decisions and we have come 180 degree's. Oil is low, profits are disappearing faster than an ice cream in mid summer, no one is happy and most are looking for alternatives and flights are often half full.

My roster just under 100hrs for Jan, similar for Nov and Dec. It is too much
felixthecat is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2016, 11:07
  #72 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Blighty
Posts: 561
Flyaway777 has hit the nail on the head!

The 777 fleet is doing every type of operation known to aviation and is doing it at a "low cost" pace, with inadequate rest in between flights, nowhere else is this being done and it's not sustainable for the troops or their families.

The mixture of earlies, nights, turnarounds longhaul and ULR in no particular order and without any set rules is punishing to the human body, no amount of cash thrown at me is enough to trade my health, quality of life and family.
springbok449 is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2016, 11:26
  #73 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Austria
Posts: 350
Bingo: It's called slavery 2.0
Who cares about your health?Stop complaining and keep on rowing!
It's getting worth.
Talparc is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2016, 13:17
  #74 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: world
Age: 50
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by Cloud Bunny View Post
So what nationality would create the utopian existence you seek?
No offence dude, but British management is the cancer of T&Cs. Everywhere they set foot in management, T&Cs go ridiculously South...
eduelp is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2016, 15:49
  #75 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
Age: 59
Posts: 765
Not trying to excuse "British current management practice" but would suggest what you have is MBA practice garnered from a certain number of US management schools. Look at US companies outside the tech area(cuddly feely !) and indeed airlines, and you see exactly the same thing as you are experiencing in the race to the bottom. I have never had the time in any organisation to actually do an MBA, but surprisingly make them (companies I have worked for) and me a lot of money, usually when the MBA Harvard yard graduate blinks !

Happy New Year
Mr Mac
Mr Mac is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2017, 10:40
  #76 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Al Ain
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by recall_checked
I didn't apply thanks to PPRuNe
So many people will keep on writing on PPRuNe
Kobus Dune is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2017, 11:26
  #77 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: The wrong timezone
Posts: 223
No offence dude..
According to you the Irish have a lot to answer for too. And indeed pilots themselves.

Maybe it's just you?

No offence...
anson harris is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2017, 12:10
  #78 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 478
Yes well, under American management over the road a 737 with complete loss of life crashes
with apparently no responsibility admitted and no lessons learnt. National stereotyping is pathetic and lazy. No offence 'dude'.
olster is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2017, 12:20
  #79 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,920
anyhoooo, fleet growth by just 6 aeroplanes last year (36 new, 29 retired). Over 500 new joiners, and rosters are still busy. Yep...no retention problem at all.
donpizmeov is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2017, 16:28
  #80 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: world
Age: 50
Posts: 42
According to you the Irish have a lot to answer for too
Same dog, different collar. I englobe all the region under the british term.

Glad to see you had the time to go through my posts. The pilots in my old airline did have a lot to do with the problem, as most of pilots of the above nationalities also lack the guts to take any sort of action and just complain.

Much happier nowadays at a place where we are respected as professional in a uk-free management.

So in short, no... it was not me.
eduelp is offline  

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