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EK results out

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

EK results out

Old 10th Nov 2016, 05:32
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 288
50k times 1000+ pilots that have left in 7 years is nice 50mil+ figure. Count in a cabin crew...say at 10k times 10000 that have left... engineering on top of that. Ignoring those numbers is arrogant. Above 3 groups are essential for the business. If a pilot/cc/eng does not show up for work unless immediate replacement is found the airplane will not fly. Office worker does not even has to call anybody, noting major will happen. This is what I see as a pilot...I bet at any department people will give examples of money bleeding away and there would be a manager dismissing it as a peanuts cost...add all those numbers and you will see the tremendous ignorance that is killing the EK's profits
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Old 10th Nov 2016, 05:45
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
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It's not killing EK's profit....
It is KILLING EK.....

Ignorance and AROGANCE..... Hello Yesterday... our new slogan..
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Old 10th Nov 2016, 06:32
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
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50k times 1000+ pilots that have left in 7 years is nice 50mil+ figure.
I think you need to look at costs in relation to revenue and profit.

How much profit have they made in the last seven years? Last year was $2.2 billion.

It would be like saying look how much they spent parking aircraft at LHR and SYD in the last year. They would accept turn over as a cost of doing business but at a certain level. Agreed, reduce turn over and you do reduce costs. However depending which figures you believe, crew costs are between 12-15% of aircraft operating costs. My simple maths says if you save 10% on crew costs then you save around 1.5% of operating costs.
This is all a black art anyway, QF manufactured loss after loss hoping to get federal government attention to relax foreign ownership rules, it did not work then they make nearly A$1 billion profit.

I would suggest that pilot costs due to turnover are AN issue but not THE highest priority issue for EK management to be putting their minds towards. EK had a head start on EY and QR but they are quick learners and hungry.

Of course some pilots think we are the most important part of the operation. Until the refueller does not turn up or ATC go on strike or the company that supplies the catering trucks stops...
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Old 10th Nov 2016, 06:40
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Of course the refueller, ATC and catering are important but (apart from catering in Dubai) they are not under the direct control of Emirates so once the contract is negotiated not much can be done about those costs.

Pilot costs and turnover are probably not the highest priority for management and CM to be concentrating on at the moment. With everybody flying 100 hours a month we are probably the most efficient workers in the company! Still, this is a pilot network so we will discuss what is relevant to us. If half the IT department get made redundant it will not directly affect anybody on here.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the highest priority issue for management at the moment? There seems to be plenty to choose from.
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Old 10th Nov 2016, 07:06
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Europe
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Well obviously Ek is sharing your thoughts and ignores everything players in the field are telling them...and they did a worst performance ever. Good luck
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Old 10th Nov 2016, 07:19
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
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EK is built around silos- each department beholden only to itself. Flight ops, training, rostering, HR, accommodation, engineering, IT etc etc etc.

Now this is only conjecture on my part, based on what I can see, but it appears to me that each has its own budget and works towards its own goals with little regard to the other departments. The examples abound: flt ops has no control over rostering, accommodation does as it pleases........

So does flight ops really care how many pilots leave if the costs to replace them are borne in another department? Probably not.

Add in some cultural influences such as saving face and you see how EK came to be where it is - a big bloated monster of a company.

When it was small it was nimble. Now it takes month to years for various departments to agree on changes, plans, budgets in an environment where no one wants to stick their neck out and maintain the status quo.

Mueller is here to change the status quo! Whether they actually let him or not is another question but that will be his goal. He will rip EK apart hard and piss off lots of people while doing it. These guys know that so they go hard and fast. Hopefully, in the end, EK comes out better for it.
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Old 10th Nov 2016, 08:39
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Wasn't Heir Mueller fired from MH? Or should I just shelve that as Cockpit/Galley Gossip?

Fuel-Off
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Old 10th Nov 2016, 08:45
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
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Originally Posted by Fuel-Off View Post
Wasn't Heir Mueller fired from MH? Or should I just shelve that as Cockpit/Galley Gossip?

Fuel-Off
Nope, he resigned. Certain people didn't like when he started touching "holy cows"

Edit: One of those "holy cows" was purchasing. After digging a little bit he wanted to get rid of 15.000 suppliers. It's not normal that a caterer gets a contract for 25 years and they pay 4.3€ for a bottle of water

Last edited by ExDubai; 10th Nov 2016 at 09:04.
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Old 10th Nov 2016, 10:19
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Icarus2001 your arguments and cost estimates are way too simplistic. Your numbers look at one persons flight training in isolation, this is a small part of the overall cost of losing another pilot. At the very least it does not factor in the cost of failures of new-joiners or upgrades, not to mention the family stuff.
We may think of ourselves a bit too highly, but by the same token you should not cherry pick one cost to make an argument about how insignificant we are
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Old 10th Nov 2016, 10:39
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Originally Posted by Kamelchaser View Post
It's a no-brainer to keep your experienced staff, but that doesn't seem to fit into the equation at EK.
That may be because management thinks they can still poach experienced pilots from others, not counting the cost of training a crop duster.
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Old 10th Nov 2016, 11:59
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Certain people didn't like when he started touching "holy cows"
I guess he will hit the same wall here.

"Do whatever it takes. With following exception: Don't touch HH, AaR, TC and any local VP including any of their decisions. Furthermore don't touch the holy number of dugongs."
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Old 10th Nov 2016, 13:33
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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He fecked off the tractors at the last place. Hope yet.
donpizmeov is online now  
Old 10th Nov 2016, 14:09
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
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Originally Posted by donpizmeov View Post
He fecked off the tractors at the last place. Hope yet.
Well 1 disappeared and another was left all over the Ukraine in very highly publicized events.
I doubt there were many bookings on MH B777 after that.
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Old 10th Nov 2016, 14:23
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
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EK burned one on the ground in DXB, and it looks like that hurt bookings across all fleets.
CM also fecked off the 380, but it was not possible to get rid of them.
MH only had a few bigbusses, unlike another airline I know about.
MH is now a local Asian player. Hardly any routes to Europe. Just ordered a number of 737 MAX under the guidance of an ex FR player.
Sad to see a company reduced to a shadow of its former self.
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Old 10th Nov 2016, 14:29
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xiamen View Post
EK burned one on the ground in DXB, and it looks like that hurt bookings across all fleets.
CM also fecked off the 380, but it was not possible to get rid of them.
MH only had a few bigbusses, unlike another airline I know about.
MH is now a local Asian player. Hardly any routes to Europe. Just ordered a number of 737 MAX under the guidance of an ex FR player.
Sad to see a company reduced to a shadow of its former self.
You work for EK?
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Old 10th Nov 2016, 14:33
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
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No. Why? Did I give that impression?
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Old 10th Nov 2016, 23:28
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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"He fecked off the tractors at the last place. Hope yet."

Couldn't agree more. EK should go all 380 ops.

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Old 11th Nov 2016, 17:04
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
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more bad news on the way.
Fasten your belts.
Trump Presidency Could Alter Open Skies And Change Global Travel Marketplace | TravelPulse
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Old 12th Nov 2016, 01:44
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Bring it on. I'd love to see Trump (aka The Human Hand Grenade) go all medieval on the ME3...no matter the outcome, it would be entertaining!
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Old 12th Nov 2016, 02:11
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
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Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the highest priority issue for management at the moment? There seems to be plenty to choose from.
Thanks for the comments, I am not arrogant enough to suggest what their highest priority should be especially since I do not see their figures. Some people have indicated pax numbers are up with a lower profit so either yield is an issue or costs too high. If stories about bloated numbers in departments are true then that would be why they have brought in CM as a fixer.
Many companies silo each business unit so it is up to the higher level management to oversee this to prevent cost shifting.

Icarus2001 your arguments and cost estimates are way too simplistic. Your numbers look at one persons flight training in isolation
Yes purposefully so. My point is simply that pilot costs are not what is killing EK. All the housing and allowances are fixed so when FO A leaves and FO B starts the difference is the ground school and sim and then any one off moving costs, that is my point. I do take the point that Captains who have children out of school are cheaper than Captains whose children are still in school but that is such an imponderable, some people have no children so it cannot be accurately measured, unlike the cost to replace an FO with a new FO which should be easy to estimate.
I guessed around $50K, if EK are outsourcing the training then they will get a discount for volume so unlikely to be extortionate. Put it like this, I can fly to the US from Australia and do a narrow body type rating for less than US$25K.
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