I want my roster - is it too much to ask?
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102 hours. ALL STICK TIME!
10 trips.
6 turns including long (4+ hour) sectors, combined rest days and a bonus war zone! (Country we are not allowed to overfly!)
4 Long Haul flights, most 9+ hours. Switch between East and West with a single day off in between!
All East flights involve pick up from residence between 11pm and 1am in the morning.
31 day month. 10 days off. 4 single days off and no more than 2 days off in a row. Where I have two days off my following pick up is before 6am in the morning!
Paradise!
10 trips.
6 turns including long (4+ hour) sectors, combined rest days and a bonus war zone! (Country we are not allowed to overfly!)
4 Long Haul flights, most 9+ hours. Switch between East and West with a single day off in between!
All East flights involve pick up from residence between 11pm and 1am in the morning.
31 day month. 10 days off. 4 single days off and no more than 2 days off in a row. Where I have two days off my following pick up is before 6am in the morning!
Paradise!
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Brutally Unsafe indeed
Maybe time again for some more education on behalf of the travelling public? Do they even care - perhaps not if the seat is cheap enough, and they avoid having to go to any family funerals.
Russia Today where are you......?
Russia Today where are you......?
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Plank Cap, in depth notification of authorities and other parties in progress. I am afraid it's taking a while. That's the downside to the places that actually have proper legal Systems. They tend to be slow. Ultimately this should make for some very visible headlines.
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I assume the headlines will be around the legal view of Western Authorities on rosters, rules, breaking of rules, lack of supervision and how it all relates to flight safety and fair competition. I hope it will come together before there is factual proof. The rosters, especially on 777, are not sustainable.
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wonder
I wonder if a flight goes down , if this chit chat will be taken as proof, because we are just guys expressing out thoughts and experience and rumours...
Fly safe guys,
N.
Fly safe guys,
N.
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Natops, let's hope that it never ever comes to that. But by now we have made so much progress and passed on so much evidence to the relevant authorities that they would not have to fall back on an anonymous rumour board.
EK know about this as we have been quite open about it. The evidence is self explanatory. The WSJ got it, so did RT. Surely EASA and the FAA are getting it.
Now ask yourself the question if EK's change of mind regarding check in times and possibly target rostering hours is coming from new-found belief in humanitarianism or rather a management risk assessment following FZ981 and a growing number of questions.
EK management have every reason to fear an independent investigation, as you all know. What is sad to watch is that they don't have the b@lls or the money for a true turn-around. So at best they will admit to being half-pregnant and, for example, change the check in times by 25 minutes when they find a more appropriate 45 minutes too expensive.
EK know about this as we have been quite open about it. The evidence is self explanatory. The WSJ got it, so did RT. Surely EASA and the FAA are getting it.
Now ask yourself the question if EK's change of mind regarding check in times and possibly target rostering hours is coming from new-found belief in humanitarianism or rather a management risk assessment following FZ981 and a growing number of questions.
EK management have every reason to fear an independent investigation, as you all know. What is sad to watch is that they don't have the b@lls or the money for a true turn-around. So at best they will admit to being half-pregnant and, for example, change the check in times by 25 minutes when they find a more appropriate 45 minutes too expensive.
Last edited by in freedom; 25th Jul 2016 at 21:50.
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Having a family that regularly flies to aus I would always book with emirates to get them there safely knowing full well that I could rely upon there truly professional flight crew. However seeing these hours that you guys and girls are flying per month really worries me and I will now consider other options for future travel arrangements. Having operated on long haul flights myself I know how fatiguing it can be and the the thought of flying east to west on a regular basis with one or two days rest in-between is really quite scary. I really do feel sorry for you guys if this is the case and I am so pleased that I turned down the opportunity to join you guys on the A380, I simply couldn't do it, I know my limits. Stay safe !!! I sincerely hope things improve for you guys !
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FRMS
Sid-Star welcome to the discussion.
Yes, FRMS (or similar in name) does exist in the desert airlines. Indeed most of the modern airline safety systems put in place in the developed world exist in the Middle East companies, but too often in name only.
The emphasis appears to be on box-ticking, as opposed to genuinely solving issues. Ticking boxes looks great to the auditors, and enables an outward appearance of industry compliance. This stems from a weak accountability trail with upper level management, encouraged by feeble regulatory oversight. I've had as much confirmed in person from one of my own company's Flight Ops Inspectors, whilst engaged in conversation with him on my jump seat during a regulatory audit flight.
The smoke and mirrors trick of the local airlines is not limited to our industry, it is endemic to the region. How often have we heard from our passengers how wonderful Airline A is, when in reality if they could see it from an inside angle they would likely think twice before putting themselves and their families onboard....
There are undoubtedly some very capable hard working middle managers who know only too well the problems on the line, but their options to obtain positive change are limited...... limited too often by corporate financial priorities, an absence of human compassion from their leaders, a lack of the right people in the right places, and a cultural emphasis on not rocking the boat. Those who do don't last very long in their position.
The culture is such that 'get it done as directed' is far more prevalent than 'get it done safely', (let alone sensibly). Lateral thinking is actively discouraged, and questioning the status quo a treasonable offence.
Where does it end? Do we have to expect a smoking hole in the desert, sadly like more than one of our nearby competitors? Despite any perceived negativity, I remain somehow optimistic that change will ultimately come. But it's an evolutionary process, and takes far longer than most of us care for, or are able to withstand on a personal level. Interestingly, some of the few positive effects on the system historically have come from public awareness - these operators absolutely hate negative PR, and have even learned to evolve (slowly) as a result of bad press reaching the public domain.
We work for an operation that discourages open discourse, living in a region with a tightly controlled, self regulating local press. Is it any wonder that for those of us who still care and wish to avoid that smoking hole in the desert, speaking out by other means remains one of the few final options......?
Yes, FRMS (or similar in name) does exist in the desert airlines. Indeed most of the modern airline safety systems put in place in the developed world exist in the Middle East companies, but too often in name only.
The emphasis appears to be on box-ticking, as opposed to genuinely solving issues. Ticking boxes looks great to the auditors, and enables an outward appearance of industry compliance. This stems from a weak accountability trail with upper level management, encouraged by feeble regulatory oversight. I've had as much confirmed in person from one of my own company's Flight Ops Inspectors, whilst engaged in conversation with him on my jump seat during a regulatory audit flight.
The smoke and mirrors trick of the local airlines is not limited to our industry, it is endemic to the region. How often have we heard from our passengers how wonderful Airline A is, when in reality if they could see it from an inside angle they would likely think twice before putting themselves and their families onboard....
There are undoubtedly some very capable hard working middle managers who know only too well the problems on the line, but their options to obtain positive change are limited...... limited too often by corporate financial priorities, an absence of human compassion from their leaders, a lack of the right people in the right places, and a cultural emphasis on not rocking the boat. Those who do don't last very long in their position.
The culture is such that 'get it done as directed' is far more prevalent than 'get it done safely', (let alone sensibly). Lateral thinking is actively discouraged, and questioning the status quo a treasonable offence.
Where does it end? Do we have to expect a smoking hole in the desert, sadly like more than one of our nearby competitors? Despite any perceived negativity, I remain somehow optimistic that change will ultimately come. But it's an evolutionary process, and takes far longer than most of us care for, or are able to withstand on a personal level. Interestingly, some of the few positive effects on the system historically have come from public awareness - these operators absolutely hate negative PR, and have even learned to evolve (slowly) as a result of bad press reaching the public domain.
We work for an operation that discourages open discourse, living in a region with a tightly controlled, self regulating local press. Is it any wonder that for those of us who still care and wish to avoid that smoking hole in the desert, speaking out by other means remains one of the few final options......?
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I probably need to read the UAE FTL's or their equivalent.
100 hours/month ? But for how many months? The annual stick hours limit for most regulatory departments is 900/year, 100/28 days. So at what point does the stick time you guys do tail off as your , presumable, max limit is approached?
9 Days off a month is worse than my short haul. But Im doing 30 sectors/month and some 12 hour 3 sector days.
100 hours/month ? But for how many months? The annual stick hours limit for most regulatory departments is 900/year, 100/28 days. So at what point does the stick time you guys do tail off as your , presumable, max limit is approached?
9 Days off a month is worse than my short haul. But Im doing 30 sectors/month and some 12 hour 3 sector days.
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You'd think you might get the 12th month off at an airline since you've reached your limit of 900, right? Not at EK... You're now the Sim Support King and/or if there are any hours left to cram into the previous 12 months, you'll do only ULR flying to absolve crediting over 900 hours with bunk time.
K
K
Last edited by Kapitanleutnant; 27th Jul 2016 at 08:54.