Need some insight on APC (Aviation Professionals club) UAE
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Vortex Thing, you are coming it a bit high and mighty, bleating about halcyon days in the officers' mess and exhorting professional pilots to purchase a log book, just because you think it's a good idea. APC doesn't suit everyone and frankly I found it to be an increasing waste of money, especially as I, like many people, get no pleasure from listening to a bunch of other pilots moaning about their rosters or how wonderful their big aeroplane is and the thought of mixing it with them and their sometimes social climbing wives is anathema. I'd rather slam my old boy in the fridge door than go on that Mundo cruise thing.
APC is refused in so many restaurants, where Platinum is specifically requested, plus I resented their insistence on paying for the privilege of direct debit. Their web site is a train smash; just try the search engine, it's appalling.
As to eating out in Dubai, I have to agree with Speedbirdhopeful: the service industry in Dubai is on a one way ticket to oblivion. They used to have to try hard and they welcomed your repeat business. Now they don't because there are so many people cramming into this tiny space that they simply don't care if you never come back or bad mouth them in the press or TripAdvisor; plenty more will come instead anyway. Value for money when eating out here is a thing of the past and the race to the bottom is well under way.
And by the way, I use Log Ten Pro as well. (Apologies for the thread slip). It is good but it's over priced and has more features than even the most anal retentive record keeper could ever use. Most of it is tosh and the only reason I subscribed is that I have better things to do than learn how to export/import log books from one format to the other.
Are you a rotor head then? Probably search and rescue by the sounds of it.
APC is refused in so many restaurants, where Platinum is specifically requested, plus I resented their insistence on paying for the privilege of direct debit. Their web site is a train smash; just try the search engine, it's appalling.
As to eating out in Dubai, I have to agree with Speedbirdhopeful: the service industry in Dubai is on a one way ticket to oblivion. They used to have to try hard and they welcomed your repeat business. Now they don't because there are so many people cramming into this tiny space that they simply don't care if you never come back or bad mouth them in the press or TripAdvisor; plenty more will come instead anyway. Value for money when eating out here is a thing of the past and the race to the bottom is well under way.
And by the way, I use Log Ten Pro as well. (Apologies for the thread slip). It is good but it's over priced and has more features than even the most anal retentive record keeper could ever use. Most of it is tosh and the only reason I subscribed is that I have better things to do than learn how to export/import log books from one format to the other.
Are you a rotor head then? Probably search and rescue by the sounds of it.
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It depends on where you're from!
BLOGGS - Erm Yep that would be correct. I THINK it is a good idea. Tbs poster asked for everyones views! My view and that of these who remain members is what I posted.
I would hardly say bleating! I have just enjoyed good times and would have preferred a world where things stayed in a similar vein. Is that such a bad thing, should we yearn for the middle ages or for times when children were stuck up chimneys for a living in times of slavery and destitution accompanied with a touch of disease and famine. How bizarre!
Do we not all want better times? My definition of better times is that I work for a firm where everyone wants to be together work and play, with their families and their colleagues. If your definition of better times is to not be with your colleagues then thats "YOUR" definition. Feel free to spend your time with whomever floats your boat and leave me to enjoy my time talking about the very thing that seems to bore you or or your wife. I like aviation, I like pilots and I like talking to and about both, in fact so much so that I would rather do that than talk about other things which I just don't find as stimulating.
My point re APC is not that it is accepted in every restaurant. It is the fact that where it is taken the saving can be significant enough to make it cheaper to go there than to eat at home. I.e family of 4 finish school run and pop to Carluccios in the Dubai Mall and watch the fountains whilst having dinner. With APC discount far cheaper and easier than going to Spinney's and getting the ingredients and cooking a similar standard meal yourself. Definitely more memorable as a lifestyle than families in UK driving through traffic in Chelsea to get to Fulham McDonalds drive through post school for the same price!
As for those talking about alcohol. Yes of course it is cheaper to go out on the lash in UK. However you also get things like set price brunches and evening buffets, good example Shangri La in Dunes where for 50% less than everyone else you can eat and drink as much as you like for a set price. £15 for all the food you can eat and all the alcohol you can drink. Yep pricey indeed!
Westin, Al Qasr, Fairmont (both of them), JBH, JW Marriott, DEPC, Desert palm, etc all do very nice buffets for a set price which do or do not have alcohol as you like included.
You simply cannot find a similar product in the UK for anywhere near that price.
So yes if you go to The Rivington (before it closed) and get a Waygu steak and bottle of Malbec it is not as cheap as the same product in London, granted. However if you use the APC website and go where we are heavily discounted and meet up with your fellow pilots (who happen to make almost all of my colleagues) then you have a relatively cheap night out which is a cheaper than UK b) better in ambience than you can get in the UK for the same level of product and c) discounted due to.....wait for it... oh yes being a member of the APC.
Re standards of service, depends on where you eat to be honest. Yes I have seen and had many mistakes and seen poor service, I have also seem some pretty good service. (Al Qasr is always a good example)
No it is not the same as sitting in the Michelin starred restaurant in Montreaux over looking the lake prior to popping to the casino but then it isn't Europe and I would to be honest rather they got NCC to know what they were doing before I get upset by the fact that they do not know which side to serve from or which cutlery to bring with my meal or wine to pair it with.
Re Log Books- Errm simples we are professional pilots. That has overheads, you don't buy the cheapest sunglasses on offer I'm willing to bet. A log book is simply one cost. If you can afford 150k worth of training you can afford a one of cost of $100 for a piece of software that last forever and as you point out does way more than you could ever need. (shouldn't every product over deliver in such fashion?) Some people call it one stop shopping others call it something to have a go at VT for!
Speedbird - I think you are agreeing with me. Groceries are indeed more expensive here. THIS IS WHY it is cheaper to eat out than cook at home! I said it was cheaper to eat out. When I go out for a meal with my wife and children and meet another family I don't normally drink any alcohol. So from a food perspective only eating out is cheaper than shopping.
Transport Jock - Let me get this right you are an FZ pilot who was junior to me at last look on the seniority list. So the "Are you new?" question can only be answered with get some time in. Just because my opinion doesn't match yours does not make me wrong or naive. In a similar way to I think that the seniority/roster situation wasn't actually as bad as others though or that DECs deserved to have **** rosters for the next X years it is simply my opinion.
Lady Matilda - The cost of living is indeed a) out of control and b) high I was referring to eating out and nothing more. If my DEWA bill appeared at my house in UK I would like make front page news in my reaction. Granted many other things that are more difficult living in DXB than ever when at home. But my point was only about food. not alcohol or school fees and to be fair a lot of that is countered by the cost of petrol!
Now my family are back in UK my school fees are way more than they were in Dubai and I get no help now. Petrol is 5 times the price and I have little option other than for my wife to drive. Mortgage may be cheaper but I don't have a 4500 sq ft villa or a pool anymore so it is hardly like for like. I have more disposable income the I had in Dubai now that I am commuting from UK but cannot eat out anywhere near as much and certainly not to the same standard or have the lifestyle that we had in Dubai.
My way of looking at it is simple. If you get paid $20,000 a month in China, $15,000 a month in Dubai and $10,000 a month in UK. Then all costs are relative to the proportion of your salary that you expend on certain things.
i.e I think it normal and usual to spend 40-50% of your salary on accommodation . So by the above figures if you live in China you end up with £7,000 per month to spend on mortgage/rent where ever you live in the world. In Dubai that should be $5000 i.e. 200,000 a year. So what can i get for 200k a year in Dubai versus the equivalent if I commute from UK to China. I apply the same methodology to filling up the car and costs of school fees etc. In Dubai I earnt more than on a UK salary and now that I am commuting home to UK it all changes but when I was in Dubai it was relatively cheaper and still is!
I would hardly say bleating! I have just enjoyed good times and would have preferred a world where things stayed in a similar vein. Is that such a bad thing, should we yearn for the middle ages or for times when children were stuck up chimneys for a living in times of slavery and destitution accompanied with a touch of disease and famine. How bizarre!
Do we not all want better times? My definition of better times is that I work for a firm where everyone wants to be together work and play, with their families and their colleagues. If your definition of better times is to not be with your colleagues then thats "YOUR" definition. Feel free to spend your time with whomever floats your boat and leave me to enjoy my time talking about the very thing that seems to bore you or or your wife. I like aviation, I like pilots and I like talking to and about both, in fact so much so that I would rather do that than talk about other things which I just don't find as stimulating.
My point re APC is not that it is accepted in every restaurant. It is the fact that where it is taken the saving can be significant enough to make it cheaper to go there than to eat at home. I.e family of 4 finish school run and pop to Carluccios in the Dubai Mall and watch the fountains whilst having dinner. With APC discount far cheaper and easier than going to Spinney's and getting the ingredients and cooking a similar standard meal yourself. Definitely more memorable as a lifestyle than families in UK driving through traffic in Chelsea to get to Fulham McDonalds drive through post school for the same price!
As for those talking about alcohol. Yes of course it is cheaper to go out on the lash in UK. However you also get things like set price brunches and evening buffets, good example Shangri La in Dunes where for 50% less than everyone else you can eat and drink as much as you like for a set price. £15 for all the food you can eat and all the alcohol you can drink. Yep pricey indeed!
Westin, Al Qasr, Fairmont (both of them), JBH, JW Marriott, DEPC, Desert palm, etc all do very nice buffets for a set price which do or do not have alcohol as you like included.
You simply cannot find a similar product in the UK for anywhere near that price.
So yes if you go to The Rivington (before it closed) and get a Waygu steak and bottle of Malbec it is not as cheap as the same product in London, granted. However if you use the APC website and go where we are heavily discounted and meet up with your fellow pilots (who happen to make almost all of my colleagues) then you have a relatively cheap night out which is a cheaper than UK b) better in ambience than you can get in the UK for the same level of product and c) discounted due to.....wait for it... oh yes being a member of the APC.
Re standards of service, depends on where you eat to be honest. Yes I have seen and had many mistakes and seen poor service, I have also seem some pretty good service. (Al Qasr is always a good example)
No it is not the same as sitting in the Michelin starred restaurant in Montreaux over looking the lake prior to popping to the casino but then it isn't Europe and I would to be honest rather they got NCC to know what they were doing before I get upset by the fact that they do not know which side to serve from or which cutlery to bring with my meal or wine to pair it with.
Re Log Books- Errm simples we are professional pilots. That has overheads, you don't buy the cheapest sunglasses on offer I'm willing to bet. A log book is simply one cost. If you can afford 150k worth of training you can afford a one of cost of $100 for a piece of software that last forever and as you point out does way more than you could ever need. (shouldn't every product over deliver in such fashion?) Some people call it one stop shopping others call it something to have a go at VT for!
Speedbird - I think you are agreeing with me. Groceries are indeed more expensive here. THIS IS WHY it is cheaper to eat out than cook at home! I said it was cheaper to eat out. When I go out for a meal with my wife and children and meet another family I don't normally drink any alcohol. So from a food perspective only eating out is cheaper than shopping.
Transport Jock - Let me get this right you are an FZ pilot who was junior to me at last look on the seniority list. So the "Are you new?" question can only be answered with get some time in. Just because my opinion doesn't match yours does not make me wrong or naive. In a similar way to I think that the seniority/roster situation wasn't actually as bad as others though or that DECs deserved to have **** rosters for the next X years it is simply my opinion.
Lady Matilda - The cost of living is indeed a) out of control and b) high I was referring to eating out and nothing more. If my DEWA bill appeared at my house in UK I would like make front page news in my reaction. Granted many other things that are more difficult living in DXB than ever when at home. But my point was only about food. not alcohol or school fees and to be fair a lot of that is countered by the cost of petrol!
Now my family are back in UK my school fees are way more than they were in Dubai and I get no help now. Petrol is 5 times the price and I have little option other than for my wife to drive. Mortgage may be cheaper but I don't have a 4500 sq ft villa or a pool anymore so it is hardly like for like. I have more disposable income the I had in Dubai now that I am commuting from UK but cannot eat out anywhere near as much and certainly not to the same standard or have the lifestyle that we had in Dubai.
My way of looking at it is simple. If you get paid $20,000 a month in China, $15,000 a month in Dubai and $10,000 a month in UK. Then all costs are relative to the proportion of your salary that you expend on certain things.
i.e I think it normal and usual to spend 40-50% of your salary on accommodation . So by the above figures if you live in China you end up with £7,000 per month to spend on mortgage/rent where ever you live in the world. In Dubai that should be $5000 i.e. 200,000 a year. So what can i get for 200k a year in Dubai versus the equivalent if I commute from UK to China. I apply the same methodology to filling up the car and costs of school fees etc. In Dubai I earnt more than on a UK salary and now that I am commuting home to UK it all changes but when I was in Dubai it was relatively cheaper and still is!
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Neither Blogs!
Yellow hats were only worn by the type of service that thought it acceptable to wear denim ( aka the devil's cloth) in an officers mess!
So gallant mate indeed but one who thinks mustard or crimson moleskins are more suitable subaltern attire and a service around long enough to have traditions rather than habits
Medals were something you got with afternoon tea nicely laid out by the dualit toaster!
Yellow hats were only worn by the type of service that thought it acceptable to wear denim ( aka the devil's cloth) in an officers mess!
So gallant mate indeed but one who thinks mustard or crimson moleskins are more suitable subaltern attire and a service around long enough to have traditions rather than habits
Medals were something you got with afternoon tea nicely laid out by the dualit toaster!
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Hahaha. Well when I was in the said service, denim was NEVER allowed. But then I'm old school. Now I know where you're coming from. Wonder if we ever crossed paths at Bessbrook Mill or the like?
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Vortex, are you on the APC board or something? The cost of eating out in Dubai is way higher than the UK, even after using the discounts. The shopping costs are higher than the UK too, but nowhere near the price of eating out. If you're going to participate, at least be honest.
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APC may or may not be as good as it used to be, fairly irrelevant really when talking about whether its good value now. I am a member, if i or my wife goes to JBH once a month it pays for itself (based on the day pass cost). We both go a lot more than that and I have been turned away once in the 12 months I've been using the Gym there. Don't assume the lists on here include everything. Email APC and ask for the deals/club list, it is pretty silly if they don't give it to you.
I understand that only the primary member in a couples platinum premium membership can get access to the beach clubs alone. So it's useless to me. Most people put their wives as the primary card holder i think, but that means i can't go when she's working. If this is inaccurate someone tell me.
For me, APC and the normal platinum card provides a good variety of access and discounts. I enjoy a good slagging match as much as the next pprune user, but i really don't think APC is bad deal if you'll use it enough.
Of course eating out in Dubai is more expensive, generally, than almost anywhere on the planet probably, but the salaries here are higher. aren't they?
I understand that only the primary member in a couples platinum premium membership can get access to the beach clubs alone. So it's useless to me. Most people put their wives as the primary card holder i think, but that means i can't go when she's working. If this is inaccurate someone tell me.
For me, APC and the normal platinum card provides a good variety of access and discounts. I enjoy a good slagging match as much as the next pprune user, but i really don't think APC is bad deal if you'll use it enough.
Of course eating out in Dubai is more expensive, generally, than almost anywhere on the planet probably, but the salaries here are higher. aren't they?
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BLOGGSON I remember you now you were that guy who nicked the last remaining fuel from that fuel bollock in the field by NTH or XMG that night when we really needed it
No Al Shuffler. I just found it, a) paid for itself many times over, b) gave my wife and Family a better quality of life in fact I would go far enough to say c) it made life in Dubai bearable whilst working for the odious corporate blood suckers who run the airlines in Dubai.
If it doesn't work for you thenit doesnt. For me and pretty much evryone I knew who we always shared tables with at APC events it was the highlight of our lives in Dubai.
However like someone above said he would rather 'slam his man parts in the fridge door' than hang about with pilots and their wives. I have an antithetical opinion, if I spent every day off surrounded by like minded proefssionals and their families drinking wine by the pool at a brunch I would be in Utopia.
I came to Dubai for the lifestyle!
The point above is surely the mot important. In just one function and one trip you make back the cost of your membership. EVERY SINGLE discount you get after that is a money for nothing. Things like being able to take the children to The Westin or the DEPC became biweekly norms, I used a public beach in Dubai twice in 4 yrs. Perhaps you like public beaches, personally I like 5 star hotels but hey some guys fly Airbuses and manage to not be terrified each day, I would personally rather use the fridge door option above, so each to their own!
No Al Shuffler. I just found it, a) paid for itself many times over, b) gave my wife and Family a better quality of life in fact I would go far enough to say c) it made life in Dubai bearable whilst working for the odious corporate blood suckers who run the airlines in Dubai.
If it doesn't work for you thenit doesnt. For me and pretty much evryone I knew who we always shared tables with at APC events it was the highlight of our lives in Dubai.
However like someone above said he would rather 'slam his man parts in the fridge door' than hang about with pilots and their wives. I have an antithetical opinion, if I spent every day off surrounded by like minded proefssionals and their families drinking wine by the pool at a brunch I would be in Utopia.
I came to Dubai for the lifestyle!
The point above is surely the mot important. In just one function and one trip you make back the cost of your membership. EVERY SINGLE discount you get after that is a money for nothing. Things like being able to take the children to The Westin or the DEPC became biweekly norms, I used a public beach in Dubai twice in 4 yrs. Perhaps you like public beaches, personally I like 5 star hotels but hey some guys fly Airbuses and manage to not be terrified each day, I would personally rather use the fridge door option above, so each to their own!
