To or Two?
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: uk
To or Two?
I would be interested about what others think about the use of the word TO, when ATC issue clearances or crews read back.
Such as "reduce speed To two fife zero" or "climb to two two zero"
This morning a Teutonic sounding gent was prefixing speed and alt changes with TO that seemed to be causing numerous reconfirmation of clearances by red eyed pilots.
I know that in SA "To" is used a lot but this was the first instance I have experienced in DXB.
Thoughts ?
Such as "reduce speed To two fife zero" or "climb to two two zero"
This morning a Teutonic sounding gent was prefixing speed and alt changes with TO that seemed to be causing numerous reconfirmation of clearances by red eyed pilots.
I know that in SA "To" is used a lot but this was the first instance I have experienced in DXB.
Thoughts ?
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
started noticing it around 5 years back in the region, had been previously advised not to use "to" when reading back heading or altitude/level clearances, but apparently it is the norm these days for ATC to use it...not sure if it has just crept in, or if it's official change to their standard phraseology
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: DontBai
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Pi8EuTcAc
Skip to 5:55 and understand the possible confusion that these guys descended (to) 400ft instead of (2)400ft
Skip to 5:55 and understand the possible confusion that these guys descended (to) 400ft instead of (2)400ft
Joined: Jan 1999
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From: On the Beach
Asking for confusion?
Yes all a bit disappointing having spent a while deprogramming my little brain to avoid using the word 'to'.
Having recently had an FCI regarding RT phraseology here at Jennifer's preferred airline, one can see that the standard ICAO source refers to the word 'to' for use by radio operators. That's ATC and pilots then. Mind you, it also talks about prefixing relevant callsigns with 'heavy' and you don't hear much of that round here.... Often 'super', rarely 'heavy'....
Oh dear, may have to ASR myself.
Having recently had an FCI regarding RT phraseology here at Jennifer's preferred airline, one can see that the standard ICAO source refers to the word 'to' for use by radio operators. That's ATC and pilots then. Mind you, it also talks about prefixing relevant callsigns with 'heavy' and you don't hear much of that round here.... Often 'super', rarely 'heavy'....
Oh dear, may have to ASR myself.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 856
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From: Dubai and Sunderland
The UK got rid of 'to' late 80's, GCAA used to do the same however they have decided to go back to ICAO standard! I have filed ROSI's and a VORSY due to mis-understanding by pilots responding to my trainee's who are being forced to use 'to' again!
Joined: Jun 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Brit living in Malaysia
As a technique I always separate the to and two with an appropriate descriptor.
Eg: ATC say 'EK123 Descend to 5000 feet.'
My response. 'EK123 Descend to Altitude 5000 feet.'
Eg: ATC say 'EK123 Descend to 5000 feet.'
My response. 'EK123 Descend to Altitude 5000 feet.'
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Had a good one over Tehran the other day- controllers repeatedly calling what sounded like "Emirates 341".
Turns out they were calling EK 111 (correct phraseology "Emirates wun wun wun"), but were using "Emirates TRIPLE one" (say it with a thick accent and imagine a !!!!ty radio, and you'll see what I mean!!)
Turns out they were calling EK 111 (correct phraseology "Emirates wun wun wun"), but were using "Emirates TRIPLE one" (say it with a thick accent and imagine a !!!!ty radio, and you'll see what I mean!!)
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: between supple thighs
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: uk
UK Cap 413 - cut and paste...
The word ‘to’ is to be omitted from messages relating to FLIGHT LEVELS.
i.e. Climb FL70 - Descend FL50
All messages relating to an aircraft’s climb or descent to an ALTITUDE employ the word ‘to’ followed immediately by the word ALTITUDE.
i.e. Descend to altitude 2000 - Climb to altitude 4000
I believe the following are also good disciplines to practice - Once again Cap 413.
The phrase ‘re-cleared’ should not be employed
When transmitting messages containing flight levels each digit shall be transmitted separately. However, in an endeavour to reduce ‘level busts’ caused by the confusion between some levels (100/110, 200/220 etc.), levels which are whole hundreds
e.g. FL100, 200, 300 shall be spoken as “Flight level (number) HUN DRED”.
The word hundred must not be used for headings
-----------------------
it's a jungle out there - keep the non standard RT on the ground ( not from Cap413 )
The word ‘to’ is to be omitted from messages relating to FLIGHT LEVELS.
i.e. Climb FL70 - Descend FL50
All messages relating to an aircraft’s climb or descent to an ALTITUDE employ the word ‘to’ followed immediately by the word ALTITUDE.
i.e. Descend to altitude 2000 - Climb to altitude 4000
I believe the following are also good disciplines to practice - Once again Cap 413.
The phrase ‘re-cleared’ should not be employed
When transmitting messages containing flight levels each digit shall be transmitted separately. However, in an endeavour to reduce ‘level busts’ caused by the confusion between some levels (100/110, 200/220 etc.), levels which are whole hundreds
e.g. FL100, 200, 300 shall be spoken as “Flight level (number) HUN DRED”.
The word hundred must not be used for headings
-----------------------
it's a jungle out there - keep the non standard RT on the ground ( not from Cap413 )
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Betwixt and between
I would be interested about what others think about the use of the word TO, when ATC issue clearances or crews read back.
Such as "reduce speed To two fife zero" or "climb to two two zero"
This morning a Teutonic sounding gent was prefixing speed and alt changes with TO that seemed to be causing numerous reconfirmation of clearances by red eyed pilots.
I know that in SA "To" is used a lot but this was the first instance I have experienced in DXB.
Thoughts ?
Such as "reduce speed To two fife zero" or "climb to two two zero"
This morning a Teutonic sounding gent was prefixing speed and alt changes with TO that seemed to be causing numerous reconfirmation of clearances by red eyed pilots.
I know that in SA "To" is used a lot but this was the first instance I have experienced in DXB.
Thoughts ?
