Will EK ever improve?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Land of the non free
Will EK ever improve?
The biggest issue for a pilot in EK is the life style. 95-100h per month mixed flying (ULR, LR, SH, night T/A) and very limited leave available.
In other words, EK is seriously short of pilots.
Management solution= lowering the hour requirement to get more people - fine (different beast).
Some seems to think things will be better once more people join.. but will it really?
What is the managements real target? How many hours is their sweet spot for our "productivity"? Even with a million suitable applicants, how many are they planning to recruit to bring the hours down..to..what?
The bracket for productivity pay is 88h, but is that their target for planning?
A new joiner makes AED 29700 plus housing ~14000. Divided in 88h the cost becomes AED 500/hour. Add to that the cost of recruitment, training etc and the real cost will be closer to 600+/h for a new pilot.
So recruiting someone costs them 600+/h while pushing someone into overtime is only 425/h.
So what's the bean counters incentive again?
In other words, EK is seriously short of pilots.
Management solution= lowering the hour requirement to get more people - fine (different beast).
Some seems to think things will be better once more people join.. but will it really?
What is the managements real target? How many hours is their sweet spot for our "productivity"? Even with a million suitable applicants, how many are they planning to recruit to bring the hours down..to..what?
The bracket for productivity pay is 88h, but is that their target for planning?
A new joiner makes AED 29700 plus housing ~14000. Divided in 88h the cost becomes AED 500/hour. Add to that the cost of recruitment, training etc and the real cost will be closer to 600+/h for a new pilot.
So recruiting someone costs them 600+/h while pushing someone into overtime is only 425/h.
So what's the bean counters incentive again?
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
From: In Fresh Air
IMHO, the next six months will be telling. Will HD have the ability to make any difference? This airline 10 years ago was a shinning star for pilots for the most part. Will it return to its brilliance or continue on its descent? On one hand, I can be very positive, but on the other hand, past performance does predict future "earnings".
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
From: Up in the air
Currently approximately 50 pilots, mostly senior captains, are on long term sick leave (more than a month). While 50 out of 3900 might not sound like a lot, remember that we as pilots are constantly monitored and supposed to be fit and healthy. Wonder how pushing it to the limit is influencing these long term sicknesses....
short flights long nights
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 4,018
Likes: 327
Ok I have to jump in here and say...of course pushing it to the limit is making people sick. I can't believe how different I feel after I stopped flying for EK. And that was when the roster was at 92 hours. ( when I joined the average roster was 78 hours)
The older you get, the harder it is. And never kid yourself it's not affecting your health, because it is.
The older you get, the harder it is. And never kid yourself it's not affecting your health, because it is.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: Asia
Productivity pay needs to be in excess of the cost to recruit someone.
The only way they can show a true commitment to have the hours lowered would be to increase that substantially.
I'd say a minimum of AED800 per hour is reasonable.
That is not intended for my pocket but as an incentive for managers to have a crewing level back to normal.
I'm in a fairly good position being close to left seat but unless something drastic will happen this spring I'm pulling the plug.
A wide body command and the extra money means nothing if you're a ghost in your own house.
The only way they can show a true commitment to have the hours lowered would be to increase that substantially.
I'd say a minimum of AED800 per hour is reasonable.
That is not intended for my pocket but as an incentive for managers to have a crewing level back to normal.
I'm in a fairly good position being close to left seat but unless something drastic will happen this spring I'm pulling the plug.
A wide body command and the extra money means nothing if you're a ghost in your own house.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
From: LHR
Thank you KCar, makes sense!
Hours wise the rumour I keep hearing is that yes it's going to get worse before it gets better, particularly now with the Panama flight and now the IAH and DFW coming back to the 777 (although slightly offset by the transfer of the IAD to 380). But by the summer apparently we're all going to be working a leisurely 85hrs.
Quite how, I've no idea without a huge influx of newbies, but that's what I've been hearing. Place your bets.....or not in this part of the world - ooops
Hours wise the rumour I keep hearing is that yes it's going to get worse before it gets better, particularly now with the Panama flight and now the IAH and DFW coming back to the 777 (although slightly offset by the transfer of the IAD to 380). But by the summer apparently we're all going to be working a leisurely 85hrs.
Quite how, I've no idea without a huge influx of newbies, but that's what I've been hearing. Place your bets.....or not in this part of the world - ooops
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,118
Likes: 140
From: overthere
Fellas,
The 900 factored hours started in 2003/4 on the 340. It's been ongoing since then.
Recruiting dropped the required hours to 2000hrs jet, as experienced pilots didn't want to come here. And still the hours stayed high.
Nothing has changed. Nothing will change apart from which fleet is being rogered.
The 900 factored hours started in 2003/4 on the 340. It's been ongoing since then.
Recruiting dropped the required hours to 2000hrs jet, as experienced pilots didn't want to come here. And still the hours stayed high.
Nothing has changed. Nothing will change apart from which fleet is being rogered.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 0
From: usa
Afternoon DAR & CMN quietly cancelled.
PTY delayed after big announcement.
The target is mid 80's by Oct.
Recruitment now going well.
(Anyone know whats being tested with blood.?)
Will it improve ? Hours wise probably not. Money wise we always hope but are disappointed.
I've taken a serious look at all options out there - still the best package for a family guy who is oldish for back to the RHS.
Rain, taxes, commuting, LCCs and the much vaunted civilized world - all yours - I'll take the car, the Command, the housing, the schooling, the little things you get with a full service airline. the route network, and all the great guys I fly with over that - but that's just me. Though I might change if my health starts to suffer.
Disclosure - I've been lucky with wife, school, health, housing and we grab Dubai for what it offers and make it work for us - couldn't imagine if any or all were less than optimal.
BUT I would like to fly less, get vacay AND to feel valued - the lack of engagement from the third floor has been poor
HD & JA apparently tight - let's hope.
Prepared for incoming from the 'tools' & 'driver' haters.
PTY delayed after big announcement.
The target is mid 80's by Oct.
Recruitment now going well.
(Anyone know whats being tested with blood.?)
Will it improve ? Hours wise probably not. Money wise we always hope but are disappointed.
I've taken a serious look at all options out there - still the best package for a family guy who is oldish for back to the RHS.
Rain, taxes, commuting, LCCs and the much vaunted civilized world - all yours - I'll take the car, the Command, the housing, the schooling, the little things you get with a full service airline. the route network, and all the great guys I fly with over that - but that's just me. Though I might change if my health starts to suffer.
Disclosure - I've been lucky with wife, school, health, housing and we grab Dubai for what it offers and make it work for us - couldn't imagine if any or all were less than optimal.
BUT I would like to fly less, get vacay AND to feel valued - the lack of engagement from the third floor has been poor
HD & JA apparently tight - let's hope.
Prepared for incoming from the 'tools' & 'driver' haters.
Last edited by fliion; 13th January 2016 at 22:53.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Land of the non free
Recruitment meeting Feb-2014 planning the 2015 financial year.
AAR: "How many (pilots) do we need for the pilots to get 30 days of leave?"
MK: "550"
AAR: "Ok, how many do wee need in order to keep the airplanes flying regardless of the leave?"
MK: "390"
AAR: "Ok, plan for 400"
Not from the cousins drivers friend..
AAR: "How many (pilots) do we need for the pilots to get 30 days of leave?"
MK: "550"
AAR: "Ok, how many do wee need in order to keep the airplanes flying regardless of the leave?"
MK: "390"
AAR: "Ok, plan for 400"
Not from the cousins drivers friend..
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 661
Likes: 14
From: UK
What a LOADED question, I'd love to think it would, or at least it would return too where it was when I joined almost a decade ago.
But, lets be honest for a moment, there will have to be a personnel and attitude changes for it to improve beyond anything superficial.
A good start for me would be going back to 85 hours unfactored, and removing any restrictions on days off beyond those that are required for rest.
That would in my opinion give many of us the chance to escape the vegas of the the ME on our longer blocks of days off and ensure our tenure was longer. It would also have the effect of showing many who presently view this place as a sweatshop that the reality is, employees are valued, just like the HR propoganda spouts.
As Marco Ramius said ... www.youtube.com/watch?v=quIJTGjlh8o
But, lets be honest for a moment, there will have to be a personnel and attitude changes for it to improve beyond anything superficial.
A good start for me would be going back to 85 hours unfactored, and removing any restrictions on days off beyond those that are required for rest.
That would in my opinion give many of us the chance to escape the vegas of the the ME on our longer blocks of days off and ensure our tenure was longer. It would also have the effect of showing many who presently view this place as a sweatshop that the reality is, employees are valued, just like the HR propoganda spouts.
As Marco Ramius said ... www.youtube.com/watch?v=quIJTGjlh8o
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
From: UAE
I wasnt aware of the PTY 'delay', but did anyone know about the A380 change to IAD before the beginning of this week? Again its not like EK to make a fleet change (especially a 'Super') with such short notice.
The pinch is hurting and it shows, I've said it before, why leave now? The eye of the storm is hitting and you've got a front row seat!
The pinch is hurting and it shows, I've said it before, why leave now? The eye of the storm is hitting and you've got a front row seat!