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GCAA Subpart Q ULR vs. LRO

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GCAA Subpart Q ULR vs. LRO

Old 30th Nov 2015, 21:31
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GCAA Subpart Q ULR vs. LRO

This might have changed some time ago but I happened to stumble upon the GCAA Subpart Q and noticed that it now does not mention ULR (16+ hours) anymore, instead it talks about LRO (Long Range Operations, 14+ hours). LRO also requires minimum 48 hours rest outstation, which I believe is not the case for EK flights to IAD, ORD etc...

Comments, thoughts?
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Old 1st Dec 2015, 05:58
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Having had a closer look it looks like a lot of changes in Subpart Q...

I.e.

1. Requires two days off (3 local nights) prior any LRO
2. Requires two days off (3 local nights) following any LRO, irrespective if followed by another LRO or shorter flight
3. Maximum 2 LROs per calendar month

Looks like this will take effect 1 Jan 2016.

"AMC3 to 1.1120(d): for all operator conducting Long rangeoperations (LRO)
1. Operations Manual
The Operations Manual shouldcontain specific instructions to ensure that the flight meets the following requirements:
(a) LRO Pre-flight and In-flight Rest Planning
A scheme shouldbe established to provide guidance to the crew on the expected pre-flight preparations and in-flight rest to be taken. Flight crew are to be appropriately rested for the LRO flight.
(b) LRO pre-flight Rostering Requirements:
Prior to operating a LRO flight or a LRO Standby departing UAE, all crew members shouldbe scheduled for 02 days off including 03 local nights of rest in base.
(c) LRO Flight Rest Period Away from Base
In the LRO Rostered Duty Assignment, the scheduled period free of flying duties away from base shouldbe at least 48 hours.
(d) Post LRO Rostered Duty Assignment Rest At Base Before embarking on the Next Flight:
All crewmembers should be scheduled for a minimum of 2 days off including 03 local nights of rest in base upon completion of a LRO pairing followed by any other duty or a LRO pairing.
(e) Each crew member shouldnot be rostered more than 02 LRO Pairings/calendar month.
(f) Cabin crew shouldbe provided with a minimum in flight rest period of (3 1/2) hours for any LRO flight."

Have a look for yourself: Part IV, OPS 1
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Old 1st Dec 2015, 06:49
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Good read and good news!

ORD definitely 48 hours now, eventually IAD.
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Old 1st Dec 2015, 07:18
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Yeah, some good, perhaps not all though:

(b) LRO pre-flight Rostering Requirements:
Prior to operating a LRO flight or a LRO Standby departing UAE, all crew members should be scheduled for 02 days off including 03 local nights of rest in base.

This could be interpreted in two ways (and NB it does not mention acclimatization):

1. You have to be rostered for days off in DXB (for EK), you don't actually have to spend them there.

or

2. You have to spend your rostered off days in DXB, regardless of acclimatization.
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Old 1st Dec 2015, 07:22
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The word "should" will be open to interpretation from EK. Standby for a new variation in the new FTL section.
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Old 1st Dec 2015, 07:36
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Amigo, hate to rain on your parade however as the term SHALL has not been used then compliance is not required.
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Old 1st Dec 2015, 08:20
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Originally Posted by uplock View Post
Amigo, hate to rain on your parade however as the term SHALL has not been used then compliance is not required.
You are soooo wrong, I wasn't parading, just taking a slow stroll, pointing out things as I pass. Also, it's not raining...

Last edited by lospilotos; 1st Dec 2015 at 08:51.
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Old 1st Dec 2015, 09:00
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and that is why EK has the annex for ulr in the om-a. rubberstamped by the gcaa. dont expect anything to change.
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Old 1st Dec 2015, 09:33
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and that is why EK has the annex for ulr in the om-a. rubberstamped by the gcaa. dont expect anything to change.
And it will NEVER change so long as an ASR along with a fatigue report isn't submitted. Make a choice, either be part of the solution or part of the problem, state the facts and not opinion. The ORD flight and IAD flight if running as 24hr layovers reduces the safety margin too much IMHO.
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Old 1st Dec 2015, 10:59
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couldnt agree more MM..especially the two local nights rest after ULR is farcical. so u have a rest day and a day off...followed by a cracking night flight to the subcontinent. get those ASRs and FR's in.
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Old 1st Dec 2015, 11:01
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Well it was rubberstamped when there were no clear rules set out by GCAA. The current OM-A would violate at least three rules in the CAR-OPS...
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Old 3rd Dec 2015, 14:49
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Don't expect any changes unless ASRs keep coming.
Edit:
I should rephrase,
Don't expect any changes.


To cover the 24hr ULRs:

Note:
Any exsiting approved LRO flight shall remain in force until the time a re-assessment is required.


and...

The GCAA may grant variations to the FTL requirements contained in this Subpart provided the operator demonstrates to the GCAA, on the basis of a risk assessment, that an equivalent level of safety is ensured.

Godspeed

Last edited by RainbowLorikeet; 3rd Dec 2015 at 23:03.
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Old 3rd Dec 2015, 20:27
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Name at least three , I'm curious.
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Old 3rd Dec 2015, 22:16
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I'm on the side of the angels, believe me, I am.

But perhaps someone could specify just how many ASR's and fatigue reports will be enough to convince EK or the regulators that there is a fatigue problem with IAD/ORD/etc?

I mean how many hundreds of reports have been filed over the last few years? And how much has changed?

Not saying it's a reason to stop trying, but let's face it the reports haven't exactly improved anything. More like a bad joke.

But God help EK when inevitably someone prangs one and the ensuing investigation cites fatigue as a contributing cause...kinda hard to claim ignorance when your crews have been screaming at you for literally years.
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Old 4th Dec 2015, 01:53
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Old 4th Dec 2015, 06:58
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24-Hour layovers on ULR should automatically be followed by an ASR and a FR. Anyone who has done any number of those knows exactly how it feels trying to stay awake at the controls.
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Old 4th Dec 2015, 08:20
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Originally Posted by fatbus View Post
Name at least three , I'm curious.
1. Two days off before (currently only 1)
2. Two days off after (currently only 1 if followed by non- ULR)
3. Maximum 2 ULR/LRO per calendar month (Currently max 3)
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 09:52
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Inside UAE
"24-Hour layovers on ULR should automatically be followed by an ASR and a FR. Anyone who has done any number of those knows exactly how it feels trying to stay awake at the controls"

Couldn't agree with you more!!!

Every Pilot doing 24hr layovers on ULR flights should ASR it.

Come on Guys, grow some!!!!
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Old 5th Dec 2015, 10:30
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Reality check. If factoring for ULR flights is allowed, and approved with the blessings of the GCAA, everything else is peanuts. How do you think so many 777 rosters are over 100 hours now? Thank you "Captain" TCAS.
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Old 23rd Apr 2016, 12:17
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How many times or ways do we need to say this, MonarchMan 100% correct.
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