Emirates Provident Scheme website

[777boyo]

Is anyone else having problems accessing the Provident Scheme website over the last couple of days? It just hangs for me - have tried various devices/browsers/operating systems/wifi networks and combinations thereof, all with the same result.

Apologies for a non rumour thread - as a retired EK person I couldn't think of any other source of information to try.

Thanks,

7B

[donpizmeov]

Working OK on Windows and Android. No problems lately. May need to contact them.

[Dropp the Pilot]

I can confirm that it hasn't been working today on Mac.

Larger question: You are no longer with EK but you continue to pay the extortionate managment fees associated with the (ahem) Providentfund?

Are you a charitable or Ghandi-like character by nature? You are donating $15,000 a year minimum to the Towers Watson-we-all-drive-Range Rovers fund.

[777boyo]

Thank you Don and DtP.

Dropp - the amount I pay in fees depends on how much I have in the scheme, so I'm curious to know how you arrive at the $15,000 number?

7B

[harry the cod]

Dropp has a bee in his bonnet about managed funds, always has, always will. Funny how some of the 'extortionate fees' find their way back into my account via rebates, based on the 'reduced' management fees that have been negotiated by Emirates.

Dropp, we know that ETF's are your thing, along with other self managed invested funds. Good for you. Most of us, as I've said before are not financial gurus or have little time to spend watching the markets. Personally, I've been happy with my returns and the .75 or 1% I pay for others to look after my money. It's worth the lack of time and effort I have to place on dealing with something I know little about. 15% last year, that works for me thank you. Several years ago it was Gold everyone was waxing lyrical about. We all have our financial goals in life so please stop knocking those that use the PF. It's allowed some of our colleagues to walk away with almost $2million......enough for 30 Range Rovers.

Harry

[lospilotos]

Low fees, yes. Stellar performance, no...

I've been in the PF now for about three years and my fund value is less than my contribution. This while major indexes have had a 20-50% gain in the same period...

[nolimitholdem]

Dropp, we know that ETF's are your thing, along with other self managed invested funds. Good for you. Most of us, as I've said before are not financial gurus or have little time to spend watching the markets. Personally, I've been happy with my returns and the .75 or 1% I pay for others to look after my money. It's worth the lack of time and effort I have to place on dealing with something I know little about. 15% last year, that works for me thank you. Several years ago it was Gold everyone was waxing lyrical about. We all have our financial goals in life so please stop knocking those that use the PF. It's allowed some of our colleagues to walk away with almost $2million......enough for 30 Range Rovers.

The bit about financial goals is a bit odd, I have yet to meet anyone whose goal is to spend more than they have to, or accept worse returns than they have to. And the reason to do so is apparently lack of willingness to learn a little bit?

Index-based investing isn't anyone's "thing", its simply been proven over and over again to give superior returns over time than managed funds. The whole point of using ETF's and similar vehicles is so you you DON'T have to be a financial guru or spend time watching the market. The fact that you would think the opposite, only helps emphasize that while pilots will spend endless amounts of time and effort mastering the intricacies of their profession, they're weirdly reluctant to invest even a fraction of the resources into gaining even the most basic of financial knowledge. Although, it isn't even so much about finance as it is about simply math: compound the difference over time between the MER's of the Provident fund choices and self-directed funds, and you'll finally realize just how much money has been siphoned out of YOUR pocket. It's not trivial. It's easy to say you're happy with something when you don't really know what you've lost, I guess.

Managed funds exist to create wealth for fund managers and financial institutions. Period. Any increase in your own wealth along the way is purely incidental, and in spite of the investment, not because of it. The fact that your investments have returned 15% YOY is due to the overall market increasing, Harry - except you've overpaid to access it. About the only good thing I can say about the EK Provident scheme is that it at least provides a small amount of forced saving for the undisciplined.

Even the "safe" cash funds in the Provident lose money, due to fees while "managers" move money around. Talk about a scam.

Gotta agree with Dropp on this one. It's one thing to have no choice but to participate via payroll deduction, but to voluntarily contribute to the C or continue to use it post-employment, is just throwing money away. Sorry.

[777boyo]

Gentlemen,

In answer to my original post, it appears that the Towers Watson version of the scheme website is working normally, but the watsonwyatt version continues to hang. I'll take it up with the Administrators tomorrow.

I seem to have unintentionally poked a stick into the Active/Passive investment nest of vipers. The debate rages even in the big investment houses, and has been the subject of entire conferences (to paraphrase from an episode of Fawlty Towers) involving people who are much smarter financially than I'll ever be. I've recently read a book called "The Smartest Investment Book You'll Ever Read", by one Daniel Solin, extolling the virtues of Index Funds, in which he proposes various asset allocations (portfolios) to minimise fees using Index Funds. I've also recently read an article in the FT which concluded following an extensive statistical analysis, that in volatile times in the markets (such as now), actively managed funds tend to out-perform passive funds. As with economics in general, put 5 economists into a room and you'll get 6 opinions. At the end of the day, its meeting your financial targets that matters, and if you're happy with whatever strategy you've elected to go with, active or passive, then good for you. In my case, the Provident Scheme makes up 25% of my portfolio (which includes some Index funds incidentally) and I'm happy with its performance as part of that. Horses for courses, and being retired my risk profile is probably lower than those of you still working.

I'm still waiting for Dropps derivation of the $15000 though......

Best of luck to everyone in reaching those targets!

7B

[Dropp the Pilot]

I seem to have unintentionally poked a stick into the Active/Passive investment nest of vipers

No, you haven't, but you have revealed your total lack of understanding of the issue. The choice between active and passive is made purely emotively and has nothing to do with the impact of management fees which is being discussed here. If you elect to do nothing about management fees you are leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table. There is nought you can do about this thievery whilst in active employment at EK (or any other employer which has a Defined Contribution scheme) but you have elected to continue to do damage to your financial health even though the money could now be in your control. That is madness.

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/ins...uth-about-cost

[777boyo]

Dropp,

I've no intention of getting into a slanging match, but I will say that my "total lack of understanding of the issues" has allowed me to retire before 60, with no financial worries. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

Best of luck with your strategy, I genuinely hope it works well for you.

7B

[GoreTex]

and I can retire at 50, thank you vanguard, I don't even think about the PF