US3 v ME3 - 'The Economist' weighs in
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MM
B717 seven year captain pay =$177,000 Not including Duty Rigs. Has twice as many days off as a 330 captain at EK and almost no night flying! I am not getting into the schooling and housing argument. But my best guess for upgrade at Delta is less than nine perhaps seven, same as EK. Currently EK 330 captains get PAID about $60,000 less than a MD-80 captain. Not sure there is much in the ME3's favor anymore on either the pay or upgrade time. The MIA road shows are mainly for the South American guys, as MIA is the easiest city for them all to get to. All this IMHO.
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If the US big three want to really shut down the ME3, just hold roadshows in Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and Doha. Take as many of the American pilots working there as you can.
Done, ME3 would be severely crippled right there.
Done, ME3 would be severely crippled right there.
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Some U.S. Pilots are still stuck in the Middle East, not because of lack of trying.
A few have interviewed and failed. It has been said that they go to the interviews (some on layovers in ATL and SEA) and say or do something stupid. It has to be because they are so fatigued beyond belief they can't think straight.
It is a shame because so many are truly desperate to escape.
There are not a lot of US pilots left. The Americans used to be the 3rd nationality at Emirates now they are 5th and dropping fast. The company hasn't hired any Americans in awhile because they know most will leave so the number still here will drop faster than rock thrown into a pond.
Delta said they have about 160 Emirates pilots applications on file. I personally hope they hire all of them.
A few have interviewed and failed. It has been said that they go to the interviews (some on layovers in ATL and SEA) and say or do something stupid. It has to be because they are so fatigued beyond belief they can't think straight.
It is a shame because so many are truly desperate to escape.
There are not a lot of US pilots left. The Americans used to be the 3rd nationality at Emirates now they are 5th and dropping fast. The company hasn't hired any Americans in awhile because they know most will leave so the number still here will drop faster than rock thrown into a pond.
Delta said they have about 160 Emirates pilots applications on file. I personally hope they hire all of them.
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Neptune
I hope they hire them too however their negative outlook about service, older employees, and unions as well as negative opinion about the US legacies shows up in the interview
They need to change their attitude about us I was told by a a person that is involve in the interview process
I hope they hire them too however their negative outlook about service, older employees, and unions as well as negative opinion about the US legacies shows up in the interview
They need to change their attitude about us I was told by a a person that is involve in the interview process
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Neptune,
EK has recently (this month) had several pilot recruitment road shows in the U.S. .
The cities were ATL Chicago, Miami and Las Vegas.
The recruiters have also sent an email to all US pilots working with EK asking them to encourage friends and colleagues from the U.S. To attend the road shows.
read the above......the company is actively pursuing US pilots.
I doubt EK will meet with much success.
EK has recently (this month) had several pilot recruitment road shows in the U.S. .
The cities were ATL Chicago, Miami and Las Vegas.
The recruiters have also sent an email to all US pilots working with EK asking them to encourage friends and colleagues from the U.S. To attend the road shows.
read the above......the company is actively pursuing US pilots.
I doubt EK will meet with much success.
Last edited by Desdihold; 31st May 2015 at 22:19.
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True many Americans leaving but to those of us who have worked in the ex-pat world for many years....we know that making sweeping generalizations about what 'all' of a certain nationality are or are not doing - is fickle and naive...
One of the benefits of being here .... There are pluses you know..(despite mgt's efforts). Cue paragraph above.
I do believe attrition will continue to increase and I have a feeling that the response to our 1.3% pay cut (most conservative inflation figure last year 4.3%) was the last straw for guys who a year ago were in the 'comme si comme ca' crowd.
The next 3-6 months with new school years for kids starting in the Fall & JAN (Antipodeans) will accelerate attrition.
Which will be fun to watch
f.
One of the benefits of being here .... There are pluses you know..(despite mgt's efforts). Cue paragraph above.
I do believe attrition will continue to increase and I have a feeling that the response to our 1.3% pay cut (most conservative inflation figure last year 4.3%) was the last straw for guys who a year ago were in the 'comme si comme ca' crowd.
The next 3-6 months with new school years for kids starting in the Fall & JAN (Antipodeans) will accelerate attrition.
Which will be fun to watch
f.
Last edited by fliion; 1st Jun 2015 at 04:17.
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I totally agree that we as employees are not valued and can be replaced. I will caution management though that there is now a pilot shortage and it only is going to get worse in the years ahead.
Any successful company values its employees and Emirates has defied the basic business model for years. Treat your employees with respect and your business will flourish. No doubt Emirates has been successful under any metrics but with morale at an all time low, pay that is sub Industry Standard, work hours north of 90 hrs and treatment the company bestowed on us I can't see EK continuing its success.
Even if half the Americans get hired it will not cripple Emirates but they are the biggest group that has decided to make a statement. More Americans have left the last two years than any other nationality by far. So the question HR and the recruitment team has before them is who doyou want to replace the pilots that leave with or how are you going to replace them? Not a pretty picture.
Any successful company values its employees and Emirates has defied the basic business model for years. Treat your employees with respect and your business will flourish. No doubt Emirates has been successful under any metrics but with morale at an all time low, pay that is sub Industry Standard, work hours north of 90 hrs and treatment the company bestowed on us I can't see EK continuing its success.
Even if half the Americans get hired it will not cripple Emirates but they are the biggest group that has decided to make a statement. More Americans have left the last two years than any other nationality by far. So the question HR and the recruitment team has before them is who doyou want to replace the pilots that leave with or how are you going to replace them? Not a pretty picture.
Paokara,
But the service really is ****e, and your crew are mostly grandmothers, can you please give the boys some more tips on what they need to lie about to get the job?
They are applying to fly aeroplanes, is it normal that they be asked service delivery and HR type questions in the interview?
But the service really is ****e, and your crew are mostly grandmothers, can you please give the boys some more tips on what they need to lie about to get the job?
They are applying to fly aeroplanes, is it normal that they be asked service delivery and HR type questions in the interview?
short flights long nights
That is very interesting Nabkin. I wonder if it is a one off or not.
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what is rotten with turboprop pilots?
Nothing with both, they might both be great human beings and gifted pilots, but which one do you want in your WB right seat flying into ADD at night?
None of both, i hope.
There is a limit of inexperience that is tolerable with the kind of "training" at EK, which is more of a computer self tutoring with subsequent checking (and bashing). They tend to beat any experience out of FOs until they can mould them into the kind of skippers that write all those deplorable ASRs and wet their underwear confronted by 180 turns .....
The low hour and only regionally experienced 737/320 (and some RJ) rookies can at least fall back on some small jet/weight characteristics in tight situations. But turboprop pilots should join FlyDubai to get a minimum of that experience, as should all cadets, before operating heavies.
It will take another GulfAir catastrophe and all the boneless chicken in the bounty castle will be plumed by the insurance companies and the European and American AA.
Why should we care?
Because it could be you or me in a stress situation with a FO losing it like the AF ones.
Everyone has to fly their first jet somewhere, what's special about EKs?
MUCH rather train an experienced TP pilot with EFIS experience and experience in working to SOPs than a jet pilot off steam gauges from an "irregular" outfit.
MUCH rather train an experienced TP pilot with EFIS experience and experience in working to SOPs than a jet pilot off steam gauges from an "irregular" outfit.
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the problem is the EK training (checking) department, the clowns that run it came here with no experience, to survive in EK you need experience from a proper airline with a solid training department, in EK the training department is used to punish pilots who don't play along.
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My guess is that nakbin meant that while there is nothing wrong with ATR guys in general, the fact that EK have for so long been so specific about weight restrictions, hours on particular types etc and have now suddenly started interviewing pretty much anyone who applies no matter what the current type and hours, it would seem, suggests that they are pretty desperate.
In that sense yes, the rot seems to have sunk in...but I don't judge a pilot on what he/she's flown and I suspect that nak didn't mean to.
In that sense yes, the rot seems to have sunk in...but I don't judge a pilot on what he/she's flown and I suspect that nak didn't mean to.
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From Emirates Group Careers
"Qualifications & Experience
Requirements for the Position of First Officer A330, B777
A minimum of 2000 hours, multi-crew, multi-engine, commercial jet aircraft"
something's fishy...
f.
"Qualifications & Experience
Requirements for the Position of First Officer A330, B777
A minimum of 2000 hours, multi-crew, multi-engine, commercial jet aircraft"
something's fishy...
f.