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Middle East is bad... So where to?

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Middle East is bad... So where to?

Old 3rd Sep 2014, 12:41
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 44
Posts: 127
Question Middle East is bad... So where to?

So many posts complaining about flying for ME carries, I'm just wondering where to go then? Besides going home, wherever that is, I can't find airlines offering better packages and growth perspectives around the globe. Unfortunately or not ME seams like the "center of now" for aviation, a oasis away from turbulent economic recessions.
So my question is, where would you go and why are you staying for now? Just out of curiosity....
Regards!
lfbb is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2014, 13:09
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
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If you find "Air Utopia" let me know..I'm in
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 13:15
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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@ifbb,

You DO realize there are other jobs outside aviation, right?

Sounds like trolling for self-justification to either join or stay. Which is it?

Do whatever makes you happy, or do what most in the ME do: just pretend you're happy. Fake it till you make it. I hear if you keep telling yourself something enough times, it makes it true.
nolimitholdem is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2014, 14:42
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: on earth
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There are plenty of jobs in other countries but maybe not offering the same salary but once again life is not only about money...
India is recruiting a lot...
China is even now offering upgrade from B737 or A320 to long haul and base out of China and the salary is not bad at all.
Korea is also recruiting for years...
Of course some will say that it is worse than here but others found it better , left and like it.
So there is always a solution but you will never find the perfect airline.
dubaigong is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2014, 15:44
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UAE
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If I live the same lifestyle I would at home (UK-which isn't cheap) - as in same size house, car, same nights out- I have more left at the end of the month than I would there. Or I can do the Dubai thing, have a more luxurious life, and have the same left. It is all a matter of choice. I still think the UAE is the best thing going at the moment but that doesn't make it perfect or as good as it was 10 years ago.
BigGeordie is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2014, 17:29
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: KUL
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I've never met so many International Airline Captains living in one bedroom apartments or poorly built townhouses with 20sqm "gardens" as i have living in Dubai.
WHAT???? Unless they have to support 3 ex-wives and 12 children this is impossible. Or just possible if they are Scottish. Seriously. I am paying off the mortgage for a 3 BR 350 sqm plus 800sqm garden Saheel 1 with my allowance easily.
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 17:37
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Age: 44
Posts: 127
Thanks for all the posts so far, but until now no one presented a realistic solution. As I said if you get yourself in a company accommodation, I do agree it's crappy, and don't get a boat, luxurious car, etc.... It's is possible to save a lot of money, but that's my 2 cents.... I keep on looking for better options but when it comes to the whole package can't find anything that suites me better.... Please point out a specific job opportunity that offers a better package. I'm not trolling, I'm actually the one who's unable to accept that there is nothing better out there at the moment.
lfbb is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2014, 18:49
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Dubai
Posts: 53
To answer your original question...

I wouldn't go anywhere right now. Not interested in the Far East and I wouldn't live in India if you paid me $50,000 a week. What I might do in a few years is see what kind of contract jobs are back in Canada (or the States). Could be a good way to finish up a career if the money and the rest is alright. Otherwise I'll stay put.

Second part of your question...

Staying here because I like it. The money's good, the job's good, the life is good, never paid 7 bucks for a cup of coffee lol, and just generally it's not nearly as bad as pilots on these forums make it seem.

But all that's personal opinion. What works for me might not work for others and that's fair enough.
ExpatBrat is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2014, 19:19
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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I do share your point of view.... That's why I can not conceive leaving ME right now. I was just wondering if I'm missing something, once people complain so much they must know somewhere were the grass is waaaayyyy greener!
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 20:33
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Join Date: Jul 1998
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Mr Machfivepointfive.

What the hell has being Scottish got to do with it you ignorant [email protected]?
BLOGGSON is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2014, 02:05
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Originally Posted by ExpatBrat View Post
To answer your original question...

I wouldn't go anywhere right now. Not interested in the Far East and I wouldn't live in India if you paid me $50,000 a week. What I might do in a few years is see what kind of contract jobs are back in Canada (or the States). Could be a good way to finish up a career if the money and the rest is alright. Otherwise I'll stay put.
Can get 4 months or more off per year in the far east at some places

Makes a 92 hour month easier when you get regular extended breaks in between.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 05:00
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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BLOGGSON

Chill, either you're a Scot with a wee sensitive side or unable to understand the association of Scots and their thriftiness. Many years ago a mate of mine (from Glasgow) and I picked up a couple of babes in a bar in London. We took a taxi back to his hotel about 6 miles away. His pick up was so attractive he could hardly keep his eyes off the taxi meter!

LAKER

Rubbish. Those staying in 1 bed apartments are there through they're own choice. They either have no family or probably have family back home and use the apt purely as a base when in Dubai. They'll take the live out allowance and save the difference. Even single F/O's get 2 bed apt minimum, 3 bed if married. F/O's with family and all Captains, regardless of marital status, get minimum 3 bed villas. I know it's a rumour network but at least get some basic facts right, ok?

Harry
harry the cod is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2014, 05:15
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Join Date: May 2011
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These threads are just getting embarrassing now...
Al Murdoch is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2014, 06:46
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,448
It's "Falling down" EK pilot style.
ManaAdaSystem is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2014, 06:46
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Can you as a new-joiner, under current market conditions, pay a mortgage with your allowance (for a decent place, doesn't have to be a huge villa though)?

I am asking because I just don't get it. I was told a F/O at EK makes about 8000 US$ plus company housing and some school fees. Any retirement benefits??
How can that be attractive for a European guy with( or even without) family??? Serious question, no offense.
Sam Ting Wong is online now  
Old 4th Sep 2014, 07:34
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: earth
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It depends on your passport .... like if you can apply for Norvegian, it's a pretty good option. Different bases and different packages.

You nailed it with the statement that the ME is the region where aviation is growing and just because it's almost the only part, they can do what they want. They take full advantage, it's supply and demand at its best and civilised behaviour at its worst.

If you want to be part of it, you have to suck up what's been described around here. If you don't, try Norvegian.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 07:43
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Join Date: Aug 2000
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First you need to learn how to spell Norwegian.
Second, they they don't pay very well, and you can forget about anything but your salary. No housing, education allowance, etc, etc.

Last edited by ManaAdaSystem; 4th Sep 2014 at 08:27.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 08:08
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: uk
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Harry,

I was being slightly dramatic. But I'm sure you've noticed a large portion of the pilot group live out and supplement the relatively modest basic salary with extra income from the housing allowance. After renting a cheap 1-2 bedroom flat a few years ago a pilot could easily add 2kUSD per month to their savings account.

With the 18+ month run up in housing prices that is no longer a viable option. So as Sam Ting Wong stated you are left with about $8,000 USD and living in company housing. For some people that is a great gig. For others it is sorely lacking considering the numerous challenges/expenses of living in Dubai and flying 89-92 hours per month. Some look at a town home in Meydan as a dream home, others would be depressed after six months. It's all perspective I guess. But the new norm is smaller villas out in the desert.

As for buying a place with the housing allowance. That worked out great for some. It would take some serious stones for a new joiner to commit 4+ million AED for a shoddily built villa in the city of hype following a 2 year run up in prices. But maybe I'm overly cautious.

Those who don't want to live in company accommodation and sign in every guest they have are provided a housing allowance of roughly 170k for FO's and 190k for CA's. Up until quite recently that was more than enough.

Go to Dubizzle and check out decent sized one bedroom apartments in the downtown area, Marina, or Palm. The nicer ones are 150-180k. When you add the 5% commission, 5% housing tax, and 5% damage deposit you are likely going to be over your allowance. Then when you consider DEWA bills you can be well over your allowance. Of course you can find cheaper ones.

What I was trying to point out is that someone who joins TODAY. Not 10 years ago, or even 3 years ago, but TODAY cannot afford to live the lifestyle that an Emirates salary historically provided. Unless they commit significant outside resources. The package of a 380/777CA at EK relative to what it will buy you in Dubai if you joined at the present time is not that stellar. I'm guessing Harry that you bought a nice big villa in Arabian Ranches years ago or else you live in one of the remaining good Villas that the company hasn't dumped yet. Your experience is going to be vastly different from someone joining today. Ok now you can tell me how i got it all wrong
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 10:38
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 44
Posts: 127
Don't wanna be annoying but we are back to pointing out the bad things about flying here, and no one has posted a better job so far.... Asia sure pays more, but don't forget the they offer no allowances. So at the end you get the same money and will have to deal with living in Asia which I think may be harder to adapt to, correct if I'm wrong.
lfbb is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2014, 11:14
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Michigan
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Ifbb it sounds like you are trying to justify your decision to join or are typing from the 3rd floor of EGHQ.
If you do want to come to the sand EK should probably your last choice since we are the lowest paid Widebody pilots of the Big 3 and have the longest time to upgrade.
There are plenty of airlines that pay more but you might not be able to join them. China is paying in some airlines $22,000 a month. I make almost half that in salary. We all know there is a provident fund and allowances here which makes up some of the difference but EK is still sorely lacking and behind most Widebody jobs. Then when you figure in our hourly wage we drop out of the picture.
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