If.......
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If.......
If we (EK) can make such a stellar profit such as we have.......imagine what we might achieve were we a properly motivated, organised and led team! Discuss.
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Smiffy, EVEN if you could find someone from this part of the world that genuinely understood the concept who could also conceptualize the outcome and could lead from the front, there would be 20 of our bean counting brethren who would council against such vacuous and unaccountable concepts, preferring instead to incentivize middle management types to come up with ever more inventive and outlandish ideas to maximize productivity and minimize cost….all concepts that are far easier to account for….
So in answer to your missive, imagine away, because it will only ever exist here in someones imagination.
So in answer to your missive, imagine away, because it will only ever exist here in someones imagination.
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Why would you want these people to learn our successful companies' best tricks?
It's absolutely hilarious to watch them squander SO much potential and yet still somehow remain profitable...
It's absolutely hilarious to watch them squander SO much potential and yet still somehow remain profitable...
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Your previous companies cannot have been that successful if you're an expat now (in this industry). A general statement I agree, but I think it's fair to say most are here because they either lost their job, furloughed, need more money, career progression (and the list goes on). Lets face it, if they (our successful companies as you put it) were that successful, we wouldn't really be here.
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"Our" companies? "Their" companies? The Clan mentality amongst expats is one of the problems with the ME. Maybe if you started seeing yourself as being a part of what's going on here you might be able to make more of a change rather than standing around gloating about "your" companies and keeping yourself at your own self imposed distance from everyone else.
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Maybe if you started seeing yourself as being a part of what's going on here you might be able to make more of a change rather than standing around gloating about "your" companies and keeping yourself at your own self imposed distance from everyone else.
Falcon 
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Do you actually believe what you've just written. Is that really how you see yourself, just merely better qualified than a 700dhs a month manual worker? I wonder why 'our' Company sees fit then to offer you a package worth 100 times what that poor chap gets.
We may not be the major cogs in the system and there are undoubtedly less employment safeguards than other more developed economies granted. But, assuming you're a Captain, your attitude is poor. Your behaviour and leadership style will affect and resonate on all those around you. Act like a professional and you'll be treated like one. Stop dumbing down the profession and the Company that, up until now, has probably provided a good standard of living for you and your family. You can choose to embrace life here or not, it's your choice. Doing the former makes life so much easier on yourself and those that have to fly with you. Stop deriding fellow colleagues for having pride and satisfaction for working at this Company and enjoying what they do. If you really feel that embarrassed to be working for EK or in the ruthless ME, you always have the choice to leave. Sadly, not an option for the low salaried and less educated.
And before the usual and yawningly obvious response of 'management' and 'kool aid', neither of which apply, maybe two thoughts. Firstly, how many pilots have been dismissed for transgressions under SVP JA? The Company knows it's not good publicity and, contrary to your beliefs, if it wants to maintain recruitment and standards, will attempt to ensure pilots are retained. There is a shortage of suitably qualified pilots and the Company is acutely aware of this. Fact! Secondly, where do you see your salary and hours worked in relation to other professions. Google it, you may be shocked, pleasantly so.
Whether it will change your attitude though is another matter altogether!
Harry
Do you actually believe what you've just written. Is that really how you see yourself, just merely better qualified than a 700dhs a month manual worker? I wonder why 'our' Company sees fit then to offer you a package worth 100 times what that poor chap gets.
We may not be the major cogs in the system and there are undoubtedly less employment safeguards than other more developed economies granted. But, assuming you're a Captain, your attitude is poor. Your behaviour and leadership style will affect and resonate on all those around you. Act like a professional and you'll be treated like one. Stop dumbing down the profession and the Company that, up until now, has probably provided a good standard of living for you and your family. You can choose to embrace life here or not, it's your choice. Doing the former makes life so much easier on yourself and those that have to fly with you. Stop deriding fellow colleagues for having pride and satisfaction for working at this Company and enjoying what they do. If you really feel that embarrassed to be working for EK or in the ruthless ME, you always have the choice to leave. Sadly, not an option for the low salaried and less educated.
And before the usual and yawningly obvious response of 'management' and 'kool aid', neither of which apply, maybe two thoughts. Firstly, how many pilots have been dismissed for transgressions under SVP JA? The Company knows it's not good publicity and, contrary to your beliefs, if it wants to maintain recruitment and standards, will attempt to ensure pilots are retained. There is a shortage of suitably qualified pilots and the Company is acutely aware of this. Fact! Secondly, where do you see your salary and hours worked in relation to other professions. Google it, you may be shocked, pleasantly so.
Whether it will change your attitude though is another matter altogether!
Harry
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Harry where do you see yourself in relation to other Widebody pilots? That is the only real question. Let's compare apples to apples. Just so you don't have to google it we as Emirates pilots don't measure up.
Yes I am better than 99% of the worlds population. After all if you make $70,000 a year you are the top 0.01 percent.
We as Emirates pilots have already dumbed down the profession. Not as much as Ryanair pilots have but we are the Ryanair of Long Haul.
When we return to airline pilot pay and benefits Emirates is sorely lacking. Is there a correlation between the mim requirements and what Emirates is attracting?
Yes I am better than 99% of the worlds population. After all if you make $70,000 a year you are the top 0.01 percent.
We as Emirates pilots have already dumbed down the profession. Not as much as Ryanair pilots have but we are the Ryanair of Long Haul.
When we return to airline pilot pay and benefits Emirates is sorely lacking. Is there a correlation between the mim requirements and what Emirates is attracting?
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Oh Harold, my goodness, does it feel good to get all of that off your chest? I reckon after that little sermon I'd need to sit down and mop my brow.
You are in many ways partially correct, but in so many more you've missed my point in trying to achieve your own, no problem, there is no skin missing from my nose.
Lets examine what you've had to say in a bit of detail, lest I be accused of being condescending.
Do you actually believe what you've just written. Is that really how you see yourself, just merely better qualified than a 700dhs a month manual worker? I wonder why 'our' Company sees fit then to offer you a package worth 100 times what that poor chap gets.
Factually speaking, I AM correct, there is no argument, the facts DO speak for themselves, and I am of course making assumptions, there may be the odd individual that has a higher level of education and qualifications, but for the purposes of this discussion, just to be safe, lets assume.
With respect to the company, I am NO different in the purest sense in that I am paid a salary/wage commensurate with my level of qualifications and experience, JUST like the chap(s) on the busses.
No argument here, and it comes with the territory, as they say, if you can't take a joke etc.
Utterly irrelevant to this discussion, and sounds more like a life coach preaching to the faithful or soon to be converted, I am not particularly interested in your philosophical position as it means less than the price of toilet paper in my household.
In an ideal world this concept has merit, however its really more accurate to say in our environment "act like a professional in the opinion of your immediate superiors, taking into consideration their cultural whims and bias, and you will be treated as one"
I'm confused, where have I dumbed down my profession? please can you highlight the text, subtext, or heaven forbid the context in which I have committed this alleged act of dumbing down? At worst (best) I have highlighted the striking similarities between two groups despite the difference in remuneration.
Ahhh something at last we can agree on!
Partially agree, however I would say mutual respect and proper old good manners are a place to start, and then we can go from there.
Where did I mention, imply or suggest I was embarrassed? And on the second point, we are in agreement again.
All in all a step in the right direction, but as they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, JA is a good egg, a man of integrity and intellect, he is however just like you and I, an outsider, if the wind were to change direction how long would his input be considered valid, I will leave it at that.
I get to work on-time, I rarely take sick-days, and I justify my operational decisions with sound reasoning and practical common sense margins, my attitude as far as my job performance is concerned is beyond reproach.
In essence Harry we are ALL expendable, we ARE no different to all the other "guest" workers, if you are indeed ignorant of that I'm afraid you have gone down in my estimations, for what thats worth.
You are in many ways partially correct, but in so many more you've missed my point in trying to achieve your own, no problem, there is no skin missing from my nose.
Lets examine what you've had to say in a bit of detail, lest I be accused of being condescending.
Do you actually believe what you've just written. Is that really how you see yourself, just merely better qualified than a 700dhs a month manual worker? I wonder why 'our' Company sees fit then to offer you a package worth 100 times what that poor chap gets.
With respect to the company, I am NO different in the purest sense in that I am paid a salary/wage commensurate with my level of qualifications and experience, JUST like the chap(s) on the busses.
We may not be the major cogs in the system and there are undoubtedly less employment safeguards than other more developed economies granted.
But, assuming you're a Captain, your attitude is poor. Your behaviour and leadership style will affect and resonate on all those around you.
Act like a professional and you'll be treated like one.
Stop dumbing down the profession and the Company that, up until now, has probably provided a good standard of living for you and your family.
You can choose to embrace life here or not, it's your choice.
Doing the former makes life so much easier on yourself and those that have to fly with you. Stop deriding fellow colleagues for having pride and satisfaction for working at this Company and enjoying what they do
If you really feel that embarrassed to be working for EK or in the ruthless ME, you always have the choice to leave. Sadly, not an option for the low salaried and less educated
And before the usual and yawningly obvious response of 'management' and 'kool aid', neither of which apply, maybe two thoughts. Firstly, how many pilots have been dismissed for transgressions under SVP JA? The Company knows it's not good publicity and, contrary to your beliefs, if it wants to maintain recruitment and standards, will attempt to ensure pilots are retained. There is a shortage of suitably qualified pilots and the Company is acutely aware of this. Fact! Secondly, where do you see your salary and hours worked in relation to other professions. Google it, you may be shocked, pleasantly so
Whether it will change your attitude though is another matter altogether!
In essence Harry we are ALL expendable, we ARE no different to all the other "guest" workers, if you are indeed ignorant of that I'm afraid you have gone down in my estimations, for what thats worth.
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cerbus
I don't disagre that the industry is not what it once was but that's market forces. EK is little different to any smart airline or Company for that matter, pay the least it can get away with for the highest return. They will keep dropping the hours until they find the critical point. We have to rely on recuitment and training integrity to maintain the standard. We have little choice in that.
Regarding salary, if you do take the trouble to look at the pay and salary, depending which stats you review, most UK comparisons are coming in at an 'average' of around 75,000 pounds for pilots/engineers. Assuming even the most optimistic scenario and we can double this to 150K for the most senior guys. That's before tax. An 8 year skipper will earn that net with housing allowance and flight pay so would require at least 250k gross if compensating for tax.
We go over this time and time again yet the facts are we're pretty well paid compared to most of our colleagues, widebody or not. I've never said life is perfect here but I do recognise a good apple when I see it!
Harry
I don't disagre that the industry is not what it once was but that's market forces. EK is little different to any smart airline or Company for that matter, pay the least it can get away with for the highest return. They will keep dropping the hours until they find the critical point. We have to rely on recuitment and training integrity to maintain the standard. We have little choice in that.
Regarding salary, if you do take the trouble to look at the pay and salary, depending which stats you review, most UK comparisons are coming in at an 'average' of around 75,000 pounds for pilots/engineers. Assuming even the most optimistic scenario and we can double this to 150K for the most senior guys. That's before tax. An 8 year skipper will earn that net with housing allowance and flight pay so would require at least 250k gross if compensating for tax.
We go over this time and time again yet the facts are we're pretty well paid compared to most of our colleagues, widebody or not. I've never said life is perfect here but I do recognise a good apple when I see it!
Harry
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I do not believe you can compare the cost of living in Dubai to that of living in a real country. In direct comparison, the our salaries might seem impressive but I believe the inflation rate for expats is astronomical in the UAE. Our base cost of living is higher in the UAE than any country I can think of. Therefore we are not as well paid as some of us seem to think.
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Please do the rest of us us a favour and qualify your thread as EK. Maybe in the title of your thread or something. APC has the same problem, FEDEX pilots think that APC is their domain in the cargo section. Does EK have a pilot board for EK inside gripes?
Last edited by WrldWide; 11th May 2014 at 18:07. Reason: Haters flame away.
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Whilst I agree to some extent, is it really a problem? You only had to read three words to realize the thread was about EK originally.
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We are not as well paid as other pilots in the same category in the Middle East. The recruitment is proving that out and like has been mentioned countless times before with our hourly rate we are taking a beating.
Yes it might be good for some but then why does Emirates have to lower their requirements and go to twice as many roadshows to attract the same number of pilots?
Why do so many pilots leave EK and many of them FOs who could have very well upgraded and been very good pilots but choose to go to greener pastures?
Just look at who we are attracting.
Yes it might be good for some but then why does Emirates have to lower their requirements and go to twice as many roadshows to attract the same number of pilots?
Why do so many pilots leave EK and many of them FOs who could have very well upgraded and been very good pilots but choose to go to greener pastures?
Just look at who we are attracting.
Just look at who we are attracting.
I'm not going to participate in this old saw beyond this, but here AC, you are simply wrong, and you and I know it has been pointed out to you before.
Well, the assumption there is that every P2F guy from Lion must necessarily be a bad pilot- that simply isn't so. Their average standard is probably lower, but that means fewer cut the mustard, not none.
While we have taken (a very few) such guys, we have also turned down many from majors and large LCCs because they can't pass the selection- and currently an RJ pilot, no matter how experienced, probably won't get an interview as we have sufficient applicants with time on Boeing and Airbi.
AC has the impression that there is something wrong with Ryanair pilots, because they are on a ****ty deal where they work (though he seems fine with US regional pilots who are on a MUCH ****tier deal).
Fact is, we have taken so many because they are that good. Whatever Ryan's shortcomings as an employer, they train well, and give their pilots great experience doing lots of sectors into challenging airports in a modern Jet.
EK loves the fact that they are a terrible employer, as it just makes them a free training ground for us.
I'm not disagreeing with much of the thrust of this thread, but the quality and availability of new-hires is not much of an issue at the moment.
I think that will change, but it hasn't yet.
While we have taken (a very few) such guys, we have also turned down many from majors and large LCCs because they can't pass the selection- and currently an RJ pilot, no matter how experienced, probably won't get an interview as we have sufficient applicants with time on Boeing and Airbi.
AC has the impression that there is something wrong with Ryanair pilots, because they are on a ****ty deal where they work (though he seems fine with US regional pilots who are on a MUCH ****tier deal).
Fact is, we have taken so many because they are that good. Whatever Ryan's shortcomings as an employer, they train well, and give their pilots great experience doing lots of sectors into challenging airports in a modern Jet.
EK loves the fact that they are a terrible employer, as it just makes them a free training ground for us.
I'm not disagreeing with much of the thrust of this thread, but the quality and availability of new-hires is not much of an issue at the moment.
I think that will change, but it hasn't yet.