QF DEC's to EK?
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MIDDLE EAST
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BDD
Thanks for all the info. Ironically, if I were to try to obtain that kind of info from our EK HR, I'd be met with a " sorry, can't publish the pay scales as our competitors may use that to their advantage" Really?
AC
I see where you're coming from, I really do but you can't compare these US legacy carriers. There are many ex Delta guys here who've been truly screwed by DL and have lost their life retirement. EK is far, far from perfect but you take it for what it is. Time spent writing to upper management would be more beneficial than ranting on here. It's a good way to vent but it achieves little.The Ryanairs and so forth will still come regardless because their lot is less than ours and so it goes on. Emirates will always offer a package that ensures a balance of retainment and recruitment.
Unfortunately, they have that balance off to a fine art!
Harry
Thanks for all the info. Ironically, if I were to try to obtain that kind of info from our EK HR, I'd be met with a " sorry, can't publish the pay scales as our competitors may use that to their advantage" Really?
AC
I see where you're coming from, I really do but you can't compare these US legacy carriers. There are many ex Delta guys here who've been truly screwed by DL and have lost their life retirement. EK is far, far from perfect but you take it for what it is. Time spent writing to upper management would be more beneficial than ranting on here. It's a good way to vent but it achieves little.The Ryanairs and so forth will still come regardless because their lot is less than ours and so it goes on. Emirates will always offer a package that ensures a balance of retainment and recruitment.
Unfortunately, they have that balance off to a fine art!
Harry
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Hell in a hand basket
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The Delta rates are a bit low because they don't factor in the raise of Jan 14. Top is around $271 now. Most people can expect another 10% in soft pay. Also DC fund is 16%.
Biggest benefit though is QOL. At EK there is very little in my opinion because if you can't have any predictability or transparency within your day to day life then life just blows. EK gives you a bit of a warm fuzzy when it comes to long term security but day to day life is abysmal and I actually enjoy Dubai.
If any pilot at EK starts any threat briefing without listing the company in and itself as the biggest threat to any flight operation then they are walking around with a blind spot the size of Putin's ego.
Biggest benefit though is QOL. At EK there is very little in my opinion because if you can't have any predictability or transparency within your day to day life then life just blows. EK gives you a bit of a warm fuzzy when it comes to long term security but day to day life is abysmal and I actually enjoy Dubai.
If any pilot at EK starts any threat briefing without listing the company in and itself as the biggest threat to any flight operation then they are walking around with a blind spot the size of Putin's ego.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Wiz, who is the WE in your post? You and other management pilots on the 3rd floor trying to present a counter balance to pprune?
When you ask how is it working out so far how do we know how much worse it would be if I didn't write to management (you probably see my emails) , voice my displeasure at wash ups and try to raise the pay and T&C. It is hard to prove a negative.
I agree with Harry's balance arguement with how Emirates recruits.
When you ask how is it working out so far how do we know how much worse it would be if I didn't write to management (you probably see my emails) , voice my displeasure at wash ups and try to raise the pay and T&C. It is hard to prove a negative.
I agree with Harry's balance arguement with how Emirates recruits.
I am NOT a management pilot.No I have never seen your emails. You really do yourself no favours when you adopt a position where anyone who points out a flaw in your arguments must have an ulterior motive.
I will and do point out where I think EK is doing the wrong thing, could be better, and when asked try and honestly give people advice about whether EK would be a good place for them to come (I have given the advice "no" more then once.).
But for now it suits me, and I am simply trying to get my head around someone who would obviously hates the airline and the place, yet is still there eight years later.
I've ALSO emailed management on what I saw were problems and shortcomings- I've been listened to and i suppose I added to the chorus, but if your MO is you are staying because we can force fundamental change, you are sadly mistaken.
You made a mistake coming to EK? Well, it's one that could be remedied (could have been almost a decade ago) and you've chosen not to.
I think after that time, staying qualifies as a choice.
I will and do point out where I think EK is doing the wrong thing, could be better, and when asked try and honestly give people advice about whether EK would be a good place for them to come (I have given the advice "no" more then once.).
But for now it suits me, and I am simply trying to get my head around someone who would obviously hates the airline and the place, yet is still there eight years later.
I've ALSO emailed management on what I saw were problems and shortcomings- I've been listened to and i suppose I added to the chorus, but if your MO is you are staying because we can force fundamental change, you are sadly mistaken.
You made a mistake coming to EK? Well, it's one that could be remedied (could have been almost a decade ago) and you've chosen not to.
I think after that time, staying qualifies as a choice.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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emratty
Valid point, however you have to remember that unless you're an Emirati, you will already be joining with experience. By defacto, you'll have spent time on a seniority list which now counts for nothing as you start over again.
That's why EK suitability is so subjective. 10-15 years ago a vast majority of new F/O's were highly experienced and ex commanders. Now it's 2500 hour ex low cost guys in their late 20's. Time to command is longer now so the requirement to recruit lower hours is a must. Nobody with 7000 hours total time in the left seat will look at EK as a good career move when you're now looking at another 6-7 years to get your command back. Add to that the luck of which fleet happens to be expanding at the time and it's not the job it was a decade ago.
As an aside, I have to say that generally the standard of most lower hour guys have been good, they're keen and switched on with competent handling skills. Quite refreshing actually!
Harry
Valid point, however you have to remember that unless you're an Emirati, you will already be joining with experience. By defacto, you'll have spent time on a seniority list which now counts for nothing as you start over again.
That's why EK suitability is so subjective. 10-15 years ago a vast majority of new F/O's were highly experienced and ex commanders. Now it's 2500 hour ex low cost guys in their late 20's. Time to command is longer now so the requirement to recruit lower hours is a must. Nobody with 7000 hours total time in the left seat will look at EK as a good career move when you're now looking at another 6-7 years to get your command back. Add to that the luck of which fleet happens to be expanding at the time and it's not the job it was a decade ago.
As an aside, I have to say that generally the standard of most lower hour guys have been good, they're keen and switched on with competent handling skills. Quite refreshing actually!
Harry
Join Date: May 2003
Location: KGRB, but on the road about 1/2 the time.
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Delta pay is less, but you work less.
Talked to a DAL senior 747 captain. He is making full pay. He flies about 120 hours per year. Does all his landings in the sim as he basically does not land the plane...gives them away to his FOs. He has one trip to Asia per month, probably works about 8 days/month.
Another guy (much more junior) was on about the equivalent of 1/2 pay in 2012. Was -777 in JFK. He flew less than 50 hours for the year. I think he is FO. Has a BIG side business.
Talked to a DAL senior 747 captain. He is making full pay. He flies about 120 hours per year. Does all his landings in the sim as he basically does not land the plane...gives them away to his FOs. He has one trip to Asia per month, probably works about 8 days/month.
Another guy (much more junior) was on about the equivalent of 1/2 pay in 2012. Was -777 in JFK. He flew less than 50 hours for the year. I think he is FO. Has a BIG side business.
short flights long nights
I'm not saying that flying 120 hours a year is not a great job....but can it be sustained? I really wish it could..but....?
Join Date: May 2006
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It is easy to get into a numbers comparison but QOL is really the issue. Working for DAL you can pick where you live, working for EK you live in Dubai. In the States you can get more bang for your buck. In Dubai there is no real competition, Sharaf charge the same as E-Max, all the restaurants charge the same inflated prices for the same meals and booze.
I don't mind Dubai but it is starting to warm up so my love hate relationship is about to change. I am sure, were I on an equivalent salary in the States, I would be better off financially, morally and QOL wise than I presently am sitting in the sandpit.
Anyway a silver lining, In Europe they are whinging about poor air quality and health effects due to Saharan sand, thank goodness we don't have any if that here..........
I don't mind Dubai but it is starting to warm up so my love hate relationship is about to change. I am sure, were I on an equivalent salary in the States, I would be better off financially, morally and QOL wise than I presently am sitting in the sandpit.
Anyway a silver lining, In Europe they are whinging about poor air quality and health effects due to Saharan sand, thank goodness we don't have any if that here..........
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Why is it a thread about QF DEC's is now focused on US carriers namely DL. If y'all left would we still suffer the thread drift? Worked with anamercian the other night and to put it lightly it was painful. I finally had to say " you are driving yourself nuts , just leave and shut up"
