China Southern roadshow in Dubai
sheiken,
What has ever been changed in your EK contract?
(Hint- productivity and bonus aren't in there. DEWA is but, despite saber rattling, no has actually been charged for DEWA when their contract specifies the company pays.)
What has ever been changed in your EK contract?
(Hint- productivity and bonus aren't in there. DEWA is but, despite saber rattling, no has actually been charged for DEWA when their contract specifies the company pays.)
Last edited by Wizofoz; 22nd Oct 2013 at 14:36.
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So my question does anyone have any contacts inside CSA preferably who knows what's going on from a management perspective and can share a little here.
I just can't take for granted what I'm told from a contract company as they just want to share in the spoils of your employment and won't really want to tell you the bad bits will they!
Imagine if CSA actually got serious and properly employed pilots for a career with real staff travel and proper holidays. The sandpit airlines would have the biggest exodus in airline history.
I'm having visions of sand piling up against the locked doors of brand new aircraft out on the Charlie stands.
I just can't take for granted what I'm told from a contract company as they just want to share in the spoils of your employment and won't really want to tell you the bad bits will they!
Imagine if CSA actually got serious and properly employed pilots for a career with real staff travel and proper holidays. The sandpit airlines would have the biggest exodus in airline history.
I'm having visions of sand piling up against the locked doors of brand new aircraft out on the Charlie stands.
Despite this being the apparent deal by the agencies I am yet to see any evidence whatsoever of a surge of expats heading in the direction of CSA. And certainly not from EK, despite what Pprune suggests.
The only thread on the Far East forum is inhabited by curious job-hunters, so either pilots in CSA are extremely happy and are far too busy enjoying themselves to be on the internet OR there just aren't guys making the jump for whatever reason. That's the warning sign for me.
I found a few posts from a guy stating he was promised a MEL base and ended up stuck in Guangzhou for the foreseeable future, plus a few posts from salesman pilots with connections to the agencies. When the only positive posts come from the agencies I can only draw one conclusion.
I'll be happy to be proved wrong and if I see lots of happy pilots taking the dream job that I'm after then maybe I'll change my mind.....
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Well...my contract specifically says that my family and I will be sent home annually to "insert specific US city here" ... That's gone....we have the pleasure of being unceremoniously deposited in any EK US destination that we specify, and then we have the pleasure of finding our own way home. Do you have that too Wiz? Or does your ALT get you all the way home?
There are others I can mention too, but let's take the most recent...being an AB guy, my contract says that reserve will be held every 10 months (for a period of 35days) ... Would it be fair to say that all the AB guys/gals are having their contracts breeched?? I think so..
Anyway, I'm not here to bitch and moan about EK's contractual obligations or not, quite simply, just remember that when you discuss another carrier not honoring a contract, remember that they probably learnt something about that from carriers in the Middle East.
There are others I can mention too, but let's take the most recent...being an AB guy, my contract says that reserve will be held every 10 months (for a period of 35days) ... Would it be fair to say that all the AB guys/gals are having their contracts breeched?? I think so..
Anyway, I'm not here to bitch and moan about EK's contractual obligations or not, quite simply, just remember that when you discuss another carrier not honoring a contract, remember that they probably learnt something about that from carriers in the Middle East.
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It looks good if you are from any of that possible bases, however leaving an airline like EK for a 2 year contract is not something I'd do, I think they should offer 5 year contract and then they'd attract more people easily, I'm sure they can offer that kind of contract easily because they wont meet the local pilot requirements so early.
The issue with the economy tickets is also easy to solve, standby business or even first if space available is very easy to write, however if you're at home base you might end up not using them.
The issue with the economy tickets is also easy to solve, standby business or even first if space available is very easy to write, however if you're at home base you might end up not using them.
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The CS contract makes sense if your kids are in school back in OZ and NZ, and you don't mind working in China.
It is a "contract", so its not for the long term. Like others said, you will be first out come a downturn! Leaving good seniority at EK, seems daft.
For Europeans the tax issue alone kills it dead, unless your have no other options Habibis!
Chinese medicals are very hard, look at the "Terms and Endearment" forum. Feedback I have from some who have gone there, bears this out.
Am not leaving EK, its still an OK gig.
SyB
It is a "contract", so its not for the long term. Like others said, you will be first out come a downturn! Leaving good seniority at EK, seems daft.
For Europeans the tax issue alone kills it dead, unless your have no other options Habibis!
Chinese medicals are very hard, look at the "Terms and Endearment" forum. Feedback I have from some who have gone there, bears this out.
Am not leaving EK, its still an OK gig.
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Why would it be a deal breaker for Europeans in regards to tax?
My understanding is that the salaries are net of Chinese tax and most European countries have double taxation agreements with China which would prevent any additional taxes back home.
Or am I missing something?
My understanding is that the salaries are net of Chinese tax and most European countries have double taxation agreements with China which would prevent any additional taxes back home.
Or am I missing something?
Leaving good seniority at EK, seems daft.
For Europeans the tax issue alone kills it dead,
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For the UK at least, its the "residency" issue that will get most. If you main abode, where you have you main life is in the UK. (LHR Base) You get taxed. I am no expert, and hope I am wrong.
Over to the experts...
SyB
Over to the experts...
SyB
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I'm not expert either. But my understanding is that you cannot be taxed twice on the same earnings if there is a tax agreement in place between 2 states.
Another thing is if they are really going to pay Chinese tax for your income, or is just a bluff from the agencies...
Another thing is if they are really going to pay Chinese tax for your income, or is just a bluff from the agencies...
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Agency help
Guys, if you have questions email Tasman aviation. BB is a pilot and he has been where we are and that is why he opened the company. Just a bit of info....Tasman is given a 3 year contract and CSA needs 150 expat pilots by 2015. They have also been told that LAX and Vancouver are confirmed. IMHO I don't think we would get screwed by this agency because the owner of the company will be on the same contract. He is also in constant contact with company and has a great relationship with them. Good luck on what ever you guys decided and I hope to see you in Vancouver or LA.
Things must be getting desperate in Bizarro World (you would see why I call it that if you ever operate into mainland China). There are agents also trolling on the Fragrant Harbour forum.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 24th Oct 2013 at 01:14.
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Slight thread drift. But was told last night that one of the guys coming over on the Korean DXB roadshow (Ex EK) was told he had no choice about coming over and helping. You will do it (He dislikes Korean apparently) Press gang anyone?!
SyB
SyB
short flights long nights
When/where is the Korean road show in Dubai? Or where do you find details?
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Think the point you are missing is that CSA does not do staff travel, period. It is not in their organisations culture to offer that benefit, but with time and some help it may change.
As to Tasman Aviation, having known BB who runs it for over 10 years, you are not likely to find a more honest and zero b/s bloke. Think he made the point several times, this contract is not for everybody. But if for what ever reason you want to move back to a base in a Western country, then it is potentially a viable option.
As to Tasman Aviation, having known BB who runs it for over 10 years, you are not likely to find a more honest and zero b/s bloke. Think he made the point several times, this contract is not for everybody. But if for what ever reason you want to move back to a base in a Western country, then it is potentially a viable option.
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If Asian carriers want to attract pilots they are going to have to up their game period. The reality is a fairly simple fix and three-fold; contract length and security (within economic reality), training culture, and pay. If they are going to have any hope at affecting their numbers they have to be realistic about what it means for a pilot to leave a tax free environment to head home. Everyone has their own reasons, but the more guys that hold out, the better conditions have to become.
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I'm surprised nobody is talking about the lack of vacation! 10 sick days per year with zero leave? Something like 9 or 10 days off per month? Sounds like you would be signing up to be a wage slave for the chinese. What's the point of being based at home if you are always driving back and forth to the airport? Sounds miserable.
Last edited by Laker; 25th Oct 2013 at 12:59.
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To each his own...
But my guess is that those that go will be searching for another job within 3 years. which to the blind means: more interviewing, more training, more moving, more stress on the family, etc. Not worth it in my humble opinion. Not yet anyways.
"Short term" are the only 2 words I can use to describe this gig.
They have a long way to go to increase the overall package before I'd call it a good deal. Dollar signs help but you have to look at everything... days off, vacation, etc.
But my guess is that those that go will be searching for another job within 3 years. which to the blind means: more interviewing, more training, more moving, more stress on the family, etc. Not worth it in my humble opinion. Not yet anyways.
"Short term" are the only 2 words I can use to describe this gig.
They have a long way to go to increase the overall package before I'd call it a good deal. Dollar signs help but you have to look at everything... days off, vacation, etc.