Gulfair 911 enroute communications
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: any town as retired.
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gulfair 911 enroute communications
Was on Cairo south frequency this morning and heard Gulf Air ask Cairo not to give them the reroute that Cairo suggested, as they were already on min div fuel, and that reroute would compromise the flight.
Cairo eventually managed a different routing, and a climb to 380 they seemed happier.
Question? should the crew have announced the min fuel to all the world at this stage, and perhaps not knowing the destination already request a tactical diversion.
glf
Cairo eventually managed a different routing, and a climb to 380 they seemed happier.
Question? should the crew have announced the min fuel to all the world at this stage, and perhaps not knowing the destination already request a tactical diversion.
glf
Why would you not attempt to negotiate a clearance that gets you safely to your intended destination?
Last edited by Wizofoz; 6th Sep 2013 at 16:32.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Adrift upon the tides of fate
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Controllers sometimes have flexibility in these matters (eg. tactical reroute), and sometimes they don't (rule sets). Pilots rarely know which- unless we pass that info on.
Why not explain the situation to the controller? You will soon find out which situation applies.
Why not explain the situation to the controller? You will soon find out which situation applies.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: any town as retired.
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good enough
But my question was really biased towards how was the situation allowed to get that the aircraft was so close to a criticality.
glf
glf
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hear it all the time enroute..aircraft asking for direct or different flight level due fuel constraints....whats the issue?? Doesn't mean he's critically low on fuel...means he is trying to preserve his contingency for unforeseen circumstances further on....if anything it shows the crew is situationally aware, and not blindly accepting clearances without consideration..
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Umm Ramool Flying Club: Proud Member
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've had a reroute from Cairo that would have put me in an "Insufficient Fuel" situation had I accepted it. Was planned to enter Saudi through Kitot then was told to go down south by Jeddah to enter. We didn't have the fuel for that. So we needed to negotiate a compromise route. I'm sure this is what GLF911 was doing also. No big deal, right?.....Right?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not writing here what the crew should have done or not, but just providing a routine scenario which could lead to a "Minimum Fuel" situation:
The flight plan for this route is always issued with only 300 kilos of contingency fuel (ERA - En Route Alternate airport contingency fuel) and 200 kilos of taxi fuel with no ADDI or XTRA fuel planned. In a typical scenario in a busy morning in BAH considering, by experience, that 99% of the crew typically loads the aircraft with the "flight plan fuel" we will easily burn 300 to 400 kilos of taxi fuel, rendering the flight with only 200kg of contingency fuel once in flight. Add to this a likely failure in loading all the step climbs, correct enroute wind profile, proper destination's STAR and IAP, alternate airport route and STAR/IAP and the crew will end up in trouble with a simple lower cleared flight level than the "planned" one.
Most of the fuel issues would be avoided using our own experience when still at the briefing stage.
The flight plan for this route is always issued with only 300 kilos of contingency fuel (ERA - En Route Alternate airport contingency fuel) and 200 kilos of taxi fuel with no ADDI or XTRA fuel planned. In a typical scenario in a busy morning in BAH considering, by experience, that 99% of the crew typically loads the aircraft with the "flight plan fuel" we will easily burn 300 to 400 kilos of taxi fuel, rendering the flight with only 200kg of contingency fuel once in flight. Add to this a likely failure in loading all the step climbs, correct enroute wind profile, proper destination's STAR and IAP, alternate airport route and STAR/IAP and the crew will end up in trouble with a simple lower cleared flight level than the "planned" one.
Most of the fuel issues would be avoided using our own experience when still at the briefing stage.
