ACARS Costs
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
From: OS
The cost is not an issue.
I was advised by a senior manager in flight ops, he who knows the cost, that if you need to update enroute WX then don't hesitiate. The cost is miniscule compared to the total communication costs pre flight.
Many parameters are sent without our knowledge all the time! Some to EK and other messages to the manufacturers of the airframe and engines.
Therefore one or two added WX requests may only add a few extra kbs to already hundreds automatically sent without pilot knowledge.
Many parameters are sent without our knowledge all the time! Some to EK and other messages to the manufacturers of the airframe and engines.
Therefore one or two added WX requests may only add a few extra kbs to already hundreds automatically sent without pilot knowledge.
Last edited by Capt Groper; 23rd September 2012 at 14:50.
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Over Chibougamau
The ACARS function is there to be used. Common sense is the word, though. I've seen guys requesting the weather for every possible airport en route, even when you can see their runways from 500 miles away.
Many moons ago I was told by one SMNC that it cost 37 cents of a US dollar per request. The use of ACARS was never an issue here, but some newbies keep raising these questions. Those costs are basically none of our business.
Many moons ago I was told by one SMNC that it cost 37 cents of a US dollar per request. The use of ACARS was never an issue here, but some newbies keep raising these questions. Those costs are basically none of our business.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
From: in the bunk
just wish, he would send it onto the screen not the printer…
Keep up the good work Hannes!
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Our cost:
125 characters =.75us cents
Average #of characters per TAF / Metar/ ATIS =250=1.5usd
If a crew prints ONLY ONE of this(assuming that the briefing documents do not have and already accurate TAF or Metar) per sector the outcome is as follows:
We have around 5000 sectors per month
5000 sectors x1.5usd=7500usd per month=90000usd per year!
NOW how many times have you see a colleague print the same !!!! every hour on a flight that will last 12, just to realize that during approach the rwy was changed at the last minute.
If this is the case, make the numbers and they will keep adding up.
If we as professionals, (forget the airline management , chief pilot, crappy schedule) don't behave as such, no complaining or winning when they make us redundant, cut our pay or there is no future expansion. The fact is that those ACARSHOLICS became part of the problem instead of part of the solution.
125 characters =.75us cents
Average #of characters per TAF / Metar/ ATIS =250=1.5usd
If a crew prints ONLY ONE of this(assuming that the briefing documents do not have and already accurate TAF or Metar) per sector the outcome is as follows:
We have around 5000 sectors per month
5000 sectors x1.5usd=7500usd per month=90000usd per year!
NOW how many times have you see a colleague print the same !!!! every hour on a flight that will last 12, just to realize that during approach the rwy was changed at the last minute.
If this is the case, make the numbers and they will keep adding up.
If we as professionals, (forget the airline management , chief pilot, crappy schedule) don't behave as such, no complaining or winning when they make us redundant, cut our pay or there is no future expansion. The fact is that those ACARSHOLICS became part of the problem instead of part of the solution.
Joined: Jan 2007
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 415
Likes: 1
From: Chichester, UK
Whilst I know that 21 tonne experience 'doesnt count' for owt out here (!!), a note of caution to all those who are wondering why their colleagues are 'wasting' ACARS time on airports that you can see 'from 500 miles away....'. - 'twas in the UK, hurtling across Hampshire at FL280, an hour or two following the passage of a particularly virulent cold front...you could see for miles, a beautiful day. "Would you mind getting me the weather for SOU please", I asked of the F/O. He looked aghast, "Why? i can see it" said he. "humuor me" said I, because I suspected that something was up....sure enough, minutes later, after a VOLMET session he came back with the fact that not only was it closed but so were many of the other fields en-route, due to severe icing on the runways and taxiways! Indeed, we spent a long time holding overhead destination, awaiting de-icing of the airport before diverting to about one of the only UK fields actually currently open, and all in glorious weather! However, as I said, 21 tonne experience counts for 'owt.....proper european weather in winter can sometimes catch the unwary out, especially if you are entrenched in the middle-east mindset and that you know best! Some of us in the RHS have seen more than you might give credit for......
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
From: Earth
Our cost:
125 characters =.75us cents
Average #of characters per TAF / Metar/ ATIS =250=1.5usd
If a crew prints ONLY ONE of this(assuming that the briefing documents do not have and already accurate TAF or Metar) per sector the outcome is as follows:
We have around 5000 sectors per month
5000 sectors x1.5usd=7500usd per month=90000usd per year!
NOW how many times have you see a colleague print the same !!!! every hour on a flight that will last 12, just to realize that during approach the rwy was changed at the last minute.
If this is the case, make the numbers and they will keep adding up.
If we as professionals, (forget the airline management , chief pilot, crappy schedule) don't behave as such, no complaining or winning when they make us redundant, cut our pay or there is no future expansion. The fact is that those ACARSHOLICS became part of the problem instead of part of the solution.
125 characters =.75us cents
Average #of characters per TAF / Metar/ ATIS =250=1.5usd
If a crew prints ONLY ONE of this(assuming that the briefing documents do not have and already accurate TAF or Metar) per sector the outcome is as follows:
We have around 5000 sectors per month
5000 sectors x1.5usd=7500usd per month=90000usd per year!
NOW how many times have you see a colleague print the same !!!! every hour on a flight that will last 12, just to realize that during approach the rwy was changed at the last minute.
If this is the case, make the numbers and they will keep adding up.
If we as professionals, (forget the airline management , chief pilot, crappy schedule) don't behave as such, no complaining or winning when they make us redundant, cut our pay or there is no future expansion. The fact is that those ACARSHOLICS became part of the problem instead of part of the solution.
Hmmmm I wonder what a pair of brake units on the 380 go for these days
Last edited by falconeasydriver; 22nd October 2012 at 12:41.
Joined: Jan 2007
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 415
Likes: 1
From: Chichester, UK
If we were REALLY being cost-conscious as an airline then we wouldnt insist upon the CC flying every sector with all of their manuals on them in case of equipment change! Consider the increase in weight being carried (x26!) per a/c and multiply this by all of the sectors flown over a year.....then consider just how much extra fuel we have burnt as a result.....methinks that ACARS costs pale into insignificance. Same old problem, though. Somebody elses budget, their problem......
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
csmiffy, fully agree.
"...pale into insignificance...?" Give me that as a year end bonus.
It all ads up.
Driver:
The last time you got a pay cut , didn't get a decent per Diem or a pay raise must have been around what +/- 1000 us? I bet you were very upset. Now you are trying to convince us all that 90000 doesn't mean anything?
Wait a second , yep is not that much, agree. Is around 60% of my annual income...
No hard feelings.
"...pale into insignificance...?" Give me that as a year end bonus.
It all ads up.
Driver:
The last time you got a pay cut , didn't get a decent per Diem or a pay raise must have been around what +/- 1000 us? I bet you were very upset. Now you are trying to convince us all that 90000 doesn't mean anything?
Wait a second , yep is not that much, agree. Is around 60% of my annual income...
No hard feelings.
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
From: Earth
Driver:
The last time you got a pay cut , didn't get a decent per Diem or a pay raise must have been around what +/- 1000 us? I bet you were very upset. Now you are trying to convince us all that 90000 doesn't mean anything?
Wait a second , yep is not that much, agree. Is around 60% of my annual income...
No hard feelings.
The last time you got a pay cut , didn't get a decent per Diem or a pay raise must have been around what +/- 1000 us? I bet you were very upset. Now you are trying to convince us all that 90000 doesn't mean anything?
Wait a second , yep is not that much, agree. Is around 60% of my annual income...
No hard feelings.
Please note I said in the grand scheme of things, nowhere did I mention as an individuals income.
Ever heard of the statement "if you think safety is expensive..try having an accident"
The ability to access relevant and pertinent MET info via ACARS is one little piece of the chain that allows us to maintain adequate SA as well as keep ourselves ahead of the curve, and better yet, allow us to have considered options BEFORE we might need them.
If you believe that 90K USD per year to achieve this, plus gaining a few more things besides is too great a price to pay, then perhaps you need to revisit a few incidents over the years where timely information could have been that last little signpost down the road where an accident or incident occured.
In an organization such as ours with nearly 200 airframes that operates to some of the most challenging parts of the globe, I'd contend that our flight Ops people would happily swallow 5 or even 10 times that cost to mitigate an incident or hull loss.
With respect to payrises or cuts etc, far be it for me to assume, but I know my wife and kids would happily not stay in a 5 star hotel this year..but have dad home.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Driver :
My most sincere apology. I get your point now.
Take the lovely wife and beautiful kids to have dinner thinking you did a great job last duty and you deserve it, as well.
Cheers!
My most sincere apology. I get your point now.
Take the lovely wife and beautiful kids to have dinner thinking you did a great job last duty and you deserve it, as well.
Cheers!
Last edited by VONKLUFFEN; 22nd October 2012 at 16:14.
