Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Middle East
Reload this Page >

TCAS - Dubai Incident

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

TCAS - Dubai Incident

Old 18th Jul 2012, 08:50
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: lagos
Posts: 762
TCAS - Dubai Incident

Your input on the April 22nd incident?

GCAA report attached :

http://www.gcaa.gov.ae/en/ePublicati...%20rev%201.pdf
pfvspnf is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2012, 12:07
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: no fixed abode
Posts: 30
What kind of input? Facts are there for all to see. Full report will take months. As with all investigations, speculation is pointless without knowing everything or having access to the information.
DESDI OR BUST is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2012, 12:23
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: any town as retired.
Posts: 2,158
Lots of traffic always possible

I agree re no second guessing the final report, but the prelim gives a reasonable insight into a possible cause.....

But as an aside I would like to ask in the report the co pilots on both aircraft are refered to as CADETS. In the report, there is no reference to a first or second officer or trainer also on the flight deck.

glf
Gulfstreamaviator is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2012, 13:45
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Adrift upon the tides of fate
Posts: 1,837
This is one of those weird ones where TCAS does the opposite of what you would expect ie. it tells the guy who is climbing to climb harder, and the guy who is level to descend. How that is ever going to provide (maintain) vertical separation, I don't know. I do understand that the algorithm has determined that this course of action will result in the minimum amount of time where there is no vertical, but it's not going to help much if you collect the other guy on the way there- especially if after the RA you resume your cleared climb and climb back thru the other guy (whose clearance was to maintain 5000' before the TCAS climb)!

Still- better to have it than not!
ferris is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2012, 19:20
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: >FL310
Posts: 429
Looking at the title of the thread, thought it might be about another TCAS we all know.
TangoUniform is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2012, 20:35
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: no fixed abode
Posts: 30
Horrible to watch to be honest.

Gulfstream.....sometimes these details are purposely left out of initial report until proper license details are established. Every State is different in how they approach a report. Most States make no mention until final...but thats how it is!

It will be an interesting read nevertheless as I wonder what the the angle of convergence of the two aircraft had on the initiation of the TCAS.
DESDI OR BUST is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2012, 23:11
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 144
Just wondering how someone gets a license with no flying hours....

A320 FO
Total all flying hours 279.63
Total flying hours on A320 279.63...

wonder did he get his license in India??
Silky is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2012, 23:21
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: in the sky
Posts: 114
@silky

Had the same doubt earlier. Guess that is printed wrong!!!
FL123 is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2012, 07:46
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: lagos
Posts: 762
I wonder who was Pilot Flying (Cadet or Commander?),

with 270 hours on type the MPL cadet must have practiced TCAS in the sim several times but it is quite a dynamic maneuver in real life which seems to have been handled well by both crews.
pfvspnf is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2012, 07:55
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 583
Just wondering how someone gets a license with no flying hours....

A320 FO
Total all flying hours 279.63
Total flying hours on A320 279.63...

wonder did he get his license in India??
What's the issue?

In the UK this is the norm. I was a cadet with what is now one of Europe's biggest carriers and started on the 737 with less than 180 hours... It's about quality of training NOT a few thousand extra hours on Cessnas.

Whilst I don't pretend to be anything more than an average 777 skipper, starting out with low hours straight onto jets didn't seem to inhibit my progress in any way... In fact arguably working short-haul on a 737 / 320 flying many sectors each day is the probably the best grounding you could get before moving on to the bigger stuff, no?

Last edited by Mr Good Cat; 21st Jul 2012 at 07:56.
Mr Good Cat is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2012, 08:10
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,933
I think you will find that with a MPL all the training is conducted on the type you are going to fly. Hence total time and time on type will be the same.

The Don
donpizmeov is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2012, 09:13
  #12 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: lagos
Posts: 762
There is still a core flying phase on piston aircraft. Approximately 70 hours.
pfvspnf is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2012, 10:53
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Home soon
Posts: 0
but it is quite a dynamic maneuver in real life which seems to have been handled well by both crews.
TCASRA , a quite dynamic maneuver? Stop smoking grass man

Last edited by de facto; 21st Jul 2012 at 10:54.
de facto is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2012, 16:10
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 188
In the UK this is the norm. I was a cadet with what is now one of Europe's biggest carriers and started on the 737 with less than 180 hours... It's about quality of training NOT a few thousand extra hours on Cessnas.
Not a whole lot of experience to draw from with only 180 hrs! Low time pilots just add to another possible link (increased likelihood) in the accident chain.
Flyer1015 is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2012, 16:20
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,788
Flyer,depends largely on their training background
ironbutt57 is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2012, 16:27
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Blandings
Posts: 705
If your TCAS RA is a 'dynamic maneuver' you are doing it wrong.

RTFM
Dropp the Pilot is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2012, 16:56
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 188
Flyer,depends largely on their training background
Meh, 180 hours is still 180 hours. You've only seen a real life "oh sh**" moment so many times with 180 hours. Training can be great and all, but nothing replaces a well of experience that comes with more flying time.
Flyer1015 is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2012, 01:50
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 144
@Mr Good Cat, you make my point exactly!! You had a lic then a 737!! So get over yourself! Never commented on anything except hours!

Dontpiz, tks for the update, obviously times have changed since I was a cadet when you required a cpl multi ir with a frozen ATPL then the hf exams then mcc then jar etc!! I think both fly Dubai and EK train their cadets on light aircraft first then mcc courses?!? Maybe there is something in their madness!
Silky is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2012, 04:46
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UAE
Posts: 376
Guys I think you are missing the issue here. As far as I can see both crews and the systems worked correctly. The ATC shift change didn't !!
Hansol is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2012, 08:41
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dubai
Posts: 769
I am guessing here but wonder if the standard too much ATC verbosity (as mandated by GCAA) had a contributing factor
ruserious is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.