What happened to security in Kabul if you go tech on a flydubai aircraft
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Exactly so 3-80.
It's not about how likely the crew were to get shot mugged or blown up but much to do with glaring disparity of company words against company action and all the assurances about what would happen if crews got unexpectedly stuck in KBL. Much was made about how the safety and security of its crews is paramount. Crews would be under escort and guidance, they would stop in "the green zone" Ya-da Ya-da Ya-da.
The first sniff of a down route tech issue and the Spaceman's assurances and security "plan" folds like a cheap Dragon Mart sun lounger. No mention in the brief of being ejected from the aircraft under protest on the wrong end of the local garrison commander's rifle. Then left to stand in outside a deserted terminal in shirt sleeves on a November night in the mountains for 2 hours. Before managing to beg a lift in the private cars of a ground agent and his friend. Then pitching up to an unknown hotel somewhere in a safe or maybe unsafe (how are the crew to know) area of down-town Kabul.
I am sure Mogadishu will feature in our destinations very shortly along with guidance that any news stories we may have seen about a civil war have greatly exaggerated and its really an ideal holiday destination.
Here I'm sure sure i know that smell. Sheep ..no that's not it. Cow...hmmm maybe.....Oh I've got yeah bull**** that's it!
F-C
It's not about how likely the crew were to get shot mugged or blown up but much to do with glaring disparity of company words against company action and all the assurances about what would happen if crews got unexpectedly stuck in KBL. Much was made about how the safety and security of its crews is paramount. Crews would be under escort and guidance, they would stop in "the green zone" Ya-da Ya-da Ya-da.
The first sniff of a down route tech issue and the Spaceman's assurances and security "plan" folds like a cheap Dragon Mart sun lounger. No mention in the brief of being ejected from the aircraft under protest on the wrong end of the local garrison commander's rifle. Then left to stand in outside a deserted terminal in shirt sleeves on a November night in the mountains for 2 hours. Before managing to beg a lift in the private cars of a ground agent and his friend. Then pitching up to an unknown hotel somewhere in a safe or maybe unsafe (how are the crew to know) area of down-town Kabul.
I am sure Mogadishu will feature in our destinations very shortly along with guidance that any news stories we may have seen about a civil war have greatly exaggerated and its really an ideal holiday destination.
Here I'm sure sure i know that smell. Sheep ..no that's not it. Cow...hmmm maybe.....Oh I've got yeah bull**** that's it!
F-C
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Just so the Skydxb boys don't get carried away... there are far worse places that the big boys fly to. Pesh - OPPS, EK, EY, Gulfair, Saudi.... FFKS EK flies to ORMM! Put your big girl panties on, sluk some cement, and harden up boys and girls...
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IR Pirate stop trolling and grow up. Its not a pissing contest about who's been to the most dangerous place.
Flydubai crews don't give a toss about which is worse - Jo'burg or Kabul. What they care about is their safety, and their families. Please don't bore us with the resign if you don't like it line, we've heard it all before. Asking for suitable security to be provided in the event of an AOG is not unreasonable behavior. It should be a basic part of the airlines operation. We may be low cost, but FD is a U.A.E flag carrier, not a 2 bit cowboy outfit dreamt up around a camp fire.
What happened is wrong - simple. And what the crews want is something done about it - simple
Flydubai crews don't give a toss about which is worse - Jo'burg or Kabul. What they care about is their safety, and their families. Please don't bore us with the resign if you don't like it line, we've heard it all before. Asking for suitable security to be provided in the event of an AOG is not unreasonable behavior. It should be a basic part of the airlines operation. We may be low cost, but FD is a U.A.E flag carrier, not a 2 bit cowboy outfit dreamt up around a camp fire.
What happened is wrong - simple. And what the crews want is something done about it - simple
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Crew can start by at least packing a jumper or something warm when flying to climates like Kabul. I can't believe they are upset about standing outside in the 'shirt sleeves' wow, how bad can it get?
Its not a pissing contest in the least, all I am saying is the amount of noise about flying to Kabul, by Skuddlebutt (or whatever they call themselves on the radio) crew is disproportionate to the actual threat level. There are much worse places.
And let me add I do feel that crews need decent support when operating to places away from home base, but there is no need for the hysterics about Kabul.
Its not a pissing contest in the least, all I am saying is the amount of noise about flying to Kabul, by Skuddlebutt (or whatever they call themselves on the radio) crew is disproportionate to the actual threat level. There are much worse places.
And let me add I do feel that crews need decent support when operating to places away from home base, but there is no need for the hysterics about Kabul.
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Taliban car bomb attack kills US troops in Kabul | World news | The Observer
All is quiet in the Afghan capital...
All is quiet in the Afghan capital...
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I think a wing or an engine would have to be missing before I wrote anything up in Kabul! 
Anti-ice problem? What anti-ice problem? You mean the one we'll get at 30,000 feet on the way back from Kabul to Dubai?
Anti-ice problem? What anti-ice problem? You mean the one we'll get at 30,000 feet on the way back from Kabul to Dubai?
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So an anti ice system failure that you wouldn’t notice until 30,000 feet on the way home....... in icing conditions. A little cavalier if you ask me.
How can this be a common sense solution?
If it’s a no go item, it’s a no go. The fact that the flydubai procedures put in place to assist pilots in this situation fell apart at the first hurdle, is NOT the pilots fault.
How can this be a common sense solution?
If it’s a no go item, it’s a no go. The fact that the flydubai procedures put in place to assist pilots in this situation fell apart at the first hurdle, is NOT the pilots fault.
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MEL is for guidance
At the end of the day down route common sense must prevail....
I can promise you that many of the BIG boys will also take this view...and given a risk assesment, the crews might well agree.
Speaking from the corporate world where if we have a defect in out tech log, we have one too many... (defects not beers.)
For some reason a defect in the tech log is seen a a major defect in the companies enginerring division.
Glf
(standing by for incoming.)
I can promise you that many of the BIG boys will also take this view...and given a risk assesment, the crews might well agree.
Speaking from the corporate world where if we have a defect in out tech log, we have one too many... (defects not beers.)
For some reason a defect in the tech log is seen a a major defect in the companies enginerring division.
Glf
(standing by for incoming.)
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"MEL is for guidance”
Seriously folks, I can’t believe what i’m reading! Big Geordie is spot on.
If the MEL says not to dispatch, it is not then up to you to make a decision on whether or not to agree with it.
Do you honestly think the company would back you if you then got into difficulties due to dispatching with a defect, which the MEL clearly states do not dispatch?
Seriously folks, I can’t believe what i’m reading! Big Geordie is spot on.
If the MEL says not to dispatch, it is not then up to you to make a decision on whether or not to agree with it.
Do you honestly think the company would back you if you then got into difficulties due to dispatching with a defect, which the MEL clearly states do not dispatch?
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For the first few months they were flying, I seriously thought that was the callsign - I didn't know about the airline at all, just thought there was someone using Skuddlebutt....
Serious.
although these days I find the "Sooooooooper" (with the obligatory deepening of voice) of certain oversized EK folk much more amusing.
Serious.
although these days I find the "Sooooooooper" (with the obligatory deepening of voice) of certain oversized EK folk much more amusing.
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Aircraft went tech due to problem with anti-ice, and with no engineering support available in Kabul.
Due to lack of trust in the procedures put in place for such events, the crew was not comfortable about leaving either the aircraft or the airport.
The company used by flydubai to provide security & assistance to its Kabul flights had left the aircraft.
Whilst they waited onboard, an armed Afghan military squad (Afghans Assume Control of Kabul Airport) boarded the aircraft and then escorted the crew ‘under protest’, at gunpoint, off the aircraft and out of the airport.
This resulted in the crew, which consisted of one Captain (male), 1 F/O (female), 4 cabin Crew (females) being abandoned, in the middle of a war zone. Then having to find their own unsecured transport, to an unsecured hotel, in the middle of the night, in Kabul.... WTF ?!!!
Due to lack of trust in the procedures put in place for such events, the crew was not comfortable about leaving either the aircraft or the airport.
The company used by flydubai to provide security & assistance to its Kabul flights had left the aircraft.
Whilst they waited onboard, an armed Afghan military squad (Afghans Assume Control of Kabul Airport) boarded the aircraft and then escorted the crew ‘under protest’, at gunpoint, off the aircraft and out of the airport.
This resulted in the crew, which consisted of one Captain (male), 1 F/O (female), 4 cabin Crew (females) being abandoned, in the middle of a war zone. Then having to find their own unsecured transport, to an unsecured hotel, in the middle of the night, in Kabul.... WTF ?!!!
Last edited by Jet II; 21st Nov 2011 at 16:23.
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"MEL is for guidance”
Seriously folks, I can’t believe what i’m reading! Big Geordie is spot on.
If the MEL says not to dispatch, it is not then up to you to make a decision on whether or not to agree with it.
Do you honestly think the company would back you if you then got into difficulties due to dispatching with a defect, which the MEL clearly states do not dispatch?
Seriously folks, I can’t believe what i’m reading! Big Geordie is spot on.
If the MEL says not to dispatch, it is not then up to you to make a decision on whether or not to agree with it.
Do you honestly think the company would back you if you then got into difficulties due to dispatching with a defect, which the MEL clearly states do not dispatch?
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Couple of quick corrections -
There is no way it would have been prudent to fly without the wing anti-ice working. The current ATIS and visual conditions were 7C and rain, with moderate icing reported to 10,000'. The crew had also flown the airplane in to KBL and accrued quite a bit of icing on the descent. Moot point, all this BS about flying with the MEL, legal or not.
Second, though physically menacing, the local Afghan "Colonel" did not threaten by pulling out the rifle or any gun. It was made clear to the crew, however, that it would be VERY bad not to get off the aircraft, as the Afghan mentioned was a seriously bad dude.
As far as standing in the parking lot in a T-shirt, it shouldn't have happened. They were standing in an area they had been forced into with no plan in place from the company. That is the serious issue - the company policies did not work. The crew had tried to de-identify by removing uniform clothing, which is why he was standing in a t-shirt (a smart move in my eyes).
The company has since said that there are now proper procedures in place, and an investigation is ongoing as to why these policies did not hold up under fire, pardon the pun. The problem is, the policies can't be tested unless we have another AOG. The only options are to trust the company or talk to the flight operations office about not doing the trips to Afghanistan.
Hope that helps!
Randy
There is no way it would have been prudent to fly without the wing anti-ice working. The current ATIS and visual conditions were 7C and rain, with moderate icing reported to 10,000'. The crew had also flown the airplane in to KBL and accrued quite a bit of icing on the descent. Moot point, all this BS about flying with the MEL, legal or not.
Second, though physically menacing, the local Afghan "Colonel" did not threaten by pulling out the rifle or any gun. It was made clear to the crew, however, that it would be VERY bad not to get off the aircraft, as the Afghan mentioned was a seriously bad dude.
As far as standing in the parking lot in a T-shirt, it shouldn't have happened. They were standing in an area they had been forced into with no plan in place from the company. That is the serious issue - the company policies did not work. The crew had tried to de-identify by removing uniform clothing, which is why he was standing in a t-shirt (a smart move in my eyes).
The company has since said that there are now proper procedures in place, and an investigation is ongoing as to why these policies did not hold up under fire, pardon the pun. The problem is, the policies can't be tested unless we have another AOG. The only options are to trust the company or talk to the flight operations office about not doing the trips to Afghanistan.
Hope that helps!
Randy
Last edited by RandyBMC; 25th Nov 2011 at 03:39.
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although these days I find the "Sooooooooper" (with the obligatory deepening of voice) of certain oversized EK folk much more amusing.
Get over yourself once and for all and accept that the term "super" is used because it is required by the myriad of authorities and the company not because the boys get a hard on by using the terminology!!! Grow up
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Well done guys! This thread was published in its entirety in the January 2012 edition of Afghan Scene magazine. "What Pilots really think about flying into Kabul Airport"...
Evidently we are all a bunch of girls....
Evidently we are all a bunch of girls....
Last edited by EladElap; 21st Jan 2012 at 03:32.