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Dictators of the Skies?

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Dictators of the Skies?

Old 12th Aug 2011, 19:12
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So we shouldn't be discussing the contents of a video in a thread about the contents of a video?

EVERY thread should be about Emirates contracts??
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Old 12th Aug 2011, 20:50
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wizofoz: couldn't agree more!!
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Old 13th Aug 2011, 16:28
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Most of us come from 1st world countries where the Rule of Law is paramount. It is the basis of civilization.
When Emirates does not honor contracts at the very least we as pilots should be very concern. We are going down a slippery slope. They can do whatever they want and we have no recourse.
It is the same ole song and dance. Emirates has two sets of rules. One for what happens out of the middle east and one for how they treat us. Completley different set of rules.
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Old 13th Aug 2011, 17:24
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swanny

You're thread creeping there, swanny. Start a new one if you like.
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Old 13th Aug 2011, 19:54
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Originally Posted by swanny
Most of us come from 1st world countries where the Rule of Law is paramount. It is the basis of civilization.
Give us the figures dude
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Old 14th Aug 2011, 06:24
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freedom

Swan... it is a lost cause. You cannot talk with White Knight or the like... does his nickname tell you anything? WK is most probably a Southafrican that fled when the oppressed black people raised and took control of their land ,country and airline.There are many in EK in this or similar situation.
Most of EK convinced supporters have the same racist and slavery prone attitude of their arab masters.
The rest, to give an example , are so convinced they are privileged cause they can buy big polluting SUV...to drive to the mall in most cases.
They are part of a system of thought that is outdated as the silver plated brithish style pottery in EK first class that indian passenger like so much.
Whatever you might say the world as a natural tendency to improve. Look from Middle Age to now how much it has actually changed for the best. We are simply living a moment of reaction like many others driven by greed but this is just the preamble to more positive radical changes ahead. EK is profiting of this moment of social and political dismay in the civilized west.
But it is just a "moment" and the signs it is about to end are there.The UAE and consequently EK are socially 600 years behind and the end that , not Air Canada, will bring them down sooner than later.

Last edited by sheikmyarse; 14th Aug 2011 at 06:38.
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Old 14th Aug 2011, 07:50
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Sheikmyarse

Thanks for clearing that up for us.
Where do I send my Air Canada application to?
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Old 14th Aug 2011, 08:09
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If EK was to play on the same rules of socially responsible, civilized airlines there would be no EK and many more jobs in places with a decent climate. As simple as that!
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Old 14th Aug 2011, 08:31
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Yes, it's always a wonderful sight when BA or Virgin or Lufthansa pull up at a gate at Dubai, and their reps go down and give bags of money to the oppressed DNATA loaders and cleaners cause, you know, they're socially responsible and all and wouldn't exploit low paid workers....

...and then there's Ryanair....

Last edited by Wizofoz; 14th Aug 2011 at 10:03.
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Old 14th Aug 2011, 08:37
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ahh yes an airline like Air Canada locked in perpetual battle with its pilot's union reminding them of how "socially responsible and civilized" they are

Me thinks its not the Sheiks arse your talking out of but rather your own!!

Last edited by three eighty; 14th Aug 2011 at 08:49.
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Old 14th Aug 2011, 08:47
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Air Canada isn't perfect with regards to free trade if you look at the pilot recruitment page,

I'm British and loose my job because of the economic crisis so look around the world for a job to feed my family, looking at Air Canada for a job the answer would be no as I need to be be a citizen of Canada to work for them, I look at the middle east and they would say yes we will employ you, so you could say the middle east carriers are more open then Air Canada to flow of the labour.

That's what it says on the employment page:

aircanada.com - Career
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Old 14th Aug 2011, 08:58
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Rule of Law?

<Most of us come from 1st world countries where the Rule of Law is paramount. It is the basis of civilization.>

Swanman,

Funny, I left AC after many, many years because they abused the 'Rule of Law'. Wage & Working Conditions would be challenged immediately, after a new contract. Union grievances were filed, but the contract continued to be ignored. After extended negotiations failed, and arbitration was forced as a final result, inevitably all grievances were tossed out by the arbitrator.

Shortly after the new arbitrated contract, the company would ignore those portions of the new contract that it couldn't work around. The union would protest, and the company's response was, 'Grieve it'. this would carry on to the next contract negotiation, arbitration, where again, all grievances were tossed out .....

After many years of this charade, it seemed pretty clear to me what to do. CK
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Old 14th Aug 2011, 11:19
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Back to the video and 'principles'...AC, and I suspect Capt 'Human Rights'...fly to China everyday...the country who has jailed the current Nobel Peace Laureate under censorship laws....

Step up to the plate AC, take a stance....and lets join hands together and get this slogan and campaign off the ground...

"Stop China flights NOW!!"

...cmon lads & lassies, who's with us eh!!???

; >

Last edited by fliion; 14th Aug 2011 at 19:31.
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Old 14th Aug 2011, 12:30
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Fliion, you are spot on with that one!
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Old 14th Aug 2011, 12:33
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We are all indentured workers here; check the expiry date on your visa.

Kudos to the UAE for not giving away passports; and rights to its land (and oil).

Kudos to Capt Paul for publicly standing up for what he believes in.

Kudos to the government of Canada, and other nations, that stop or limit the amount of slots made available to foreign carriers.

It is impossible for a privately owned company to compete with a government, especially a rich government.

I'm sure EK's interest in Canada is to simply help the Canadian economy and to create jobs. After all, isn't that what big business is about? I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that they have 44 wide body's arriving in 18 months, and no where to send them.

The EK die hards have no problem with the UAE government supporting them, but seem to have an issue with the Canadian government supporting AC. Strange...

Peace in the ME.
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Old 14th Aug 2011, 15:10
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Emirates ruined the "Kangaroo Route"!

What a load of sh!t.

Star and Oneworld reigned in any loose kangaroo's on that one by condensing services to improve yield.

However l say good on the Canuks. And keep these two on TV as l found them very entertaining.

Halas
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Old 14th Aug 2011, 15:58
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If the government of Canada is "blocking competition" for Air Canada, would that not constitute a type of 'support'? I don't know that they are blocking competition, just unfair competition.

Maybe the Canadian government would have limited the UAE slots without any input from AC, who knows.

"Open skies is an international policy concept which calls for the liberalization of rules and regulations on international aviation industry most specially commercial aviation - opening a free market for the airline industry. Its primary objectives are:
· to liberalize the rules for international aviation markets and minimizes government intervention — the provisions apply to passenger, all-cargo and combination air transportation and encompass both scheduled and charter services; or
· to adjust the regime under which military and other state-based flights may be permitted.
For open skies to effect, a bilateral (and sometimes multilateral) Air Transport Agreement has to be concluded between two or more nations."

In reference to the first bullet point, "minimize government intervention".

EK is owned by the government.

The UAE kicked the Canadian Armed Forces out of Mirage because they did not get their 60+ weekly landing slots in Canada.

This is blatant government intervention and goes against the first objective of the open skies agreement.

"Emirates is a subsidiary of The Emirates Group, which has over 50,000 employees, and is wholly owned by the government of Dubai directly under the Investment Corporation of Dubai.[7] "

Canada is not the first, nor the last, nation to block or limit foreign carriers. Nor is Canada the only nation with a concern for its own economy and interests with regards to EK.

"Some of these carriers—notably Air France and Qantas—are so concerned about the detrimental effects of Emirates' growth on their future ability to compete with it on a level playing field that they have resorted to openly accusing their Dubai-based rival of receiving hidden state subsidies and of maintaining too cozy a relationship with Dubai's airport authority as well as its aviation authority, both of which are also wholly state-owned entities that share the same government owner with the airline. In addition, they have also accused Emirates of taking unfair advantage of its government shareholders' sovereign borrower status. They claim that this masks its true financial performance and reduces its borrowing costs below market rates.[85][163]"
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Old 14th Aug 2011, 17:26
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AC wants open sky when it suits them only...

LHR Rain,

Disagree with you! I came from Air Canada and work for EK. Best move of my life... I quit after the merger mess with CAI (I am former AC, not CAI) which screwed me out of my seniority and career progression forever at AC. And I was not junior. That is in fact why I left. Pilots are too busy there fighting each other to see what is going on elsewhere. Can't trust the unions, sorry!

Competition with subsidized carrier? Nope... What about AC paying for the housing and utility bills for all of its employees? There is no way they would survive. Yet EK, EY and the likes do that, so it levels the playing field somewhat if you are worried about that. I agree with others: competition is not about being fair... It's about competing using every advantage you have.

What about the AC business model, pre-merger with Canadian, of flooding the USA with multiple direct routes using RJ's everywhere and to squeeze every other airline in Canada to keep / increase their monopoly? I was there when it was going on... They are doing it to Porter right now! Since when AC wants to fly out of Toronto Island? Come on... Leave me alone with open sky and fair competition. AC doesn't even fly to the Middle East...

I'll stop here...
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Old 22nd Aug 2011, 05:01
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This says it all really.
Emirates Dictator of the Skies video; a nasty media smear | Plane Talking
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Old 23rd Aug 2011, 16:38
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Alconguin Crusader

Ok buddy...time's up! By hiding behind a cowardly and personally insulting PM, you've shown yourself to be a little boy pilot...by the looks of things you didn't do your homework before you joined EK, and now you are stuck, so you've chosen to throw all your toys out of your playpen... tough luck big guy...I fail to see why you still insist on staying and complaining...just take that big jet home and leave your long suffering colleagues alone...oh by the way, your PM was steeerike 3! You're out! Ignored....see ya!
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