EK 777 Captains to the A380?
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Spot on Rim-job
IMHO, F/O's WILL upgrade directly on the A380 simply because in a few years time (or sooner) there wont be any A330's to come back across to anyway, so the company will have no choice...... BUT, while they do still have a choice, they will continue to bring guys back to the 'mini'-bus.
Simple really....
IMHO, F/O's WILL upgrade directly on the A380 simply because in a few years time (or sooner) there wont be any A330's to come back across to anyway, so the company will have no choice...... BUT, while they do still have a choice, they will continue to bring guys back to the 'mini'-bus.
Simple really....
You couldn't get a command direct onto the 777 years ago, but had to go back to the 300/310. That changed when they worked out how much it costs.
Direct RHS on the 380 and commands on the 380 will happen. Good luck with guessing the time frame though.
Direct RHS on the 380 and commands on the 380 will happen. Good luck with guessing the time frame though.
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Don,
The time frame for direct RHS is now, may have been a one off considering where the chap is from but DE 380 F/O is on the seniority list now. Ex Singapore by the looks of it.
Regards
IH
P.S What did I win?
The time frame for direct RHS is now, may have been a one off considering where the chap is from but DE 380 F/O is on the seniority list now. Ex Singapore by the looks of it.
Regards
IH
P.S What did I win?
Yes you did. Prize is in the mail. 
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Originally Posted by Rim Job
White Night...
I was NOT saying that the current 380 F/Os are not capable of upgrading on the 380. I'm stating that the current requirements state that 3,000 hours EK Command Time On 330/340 or 777 Is Required Ergo; no RHS to LHS on 380!!!
Yes, things change (you don't need to tell me thanks), but I am of the understanding that the requirement is as much to reduce the insurance premiums on the hulls as it is for the top brass to sleep peacefully at night - without nightmares of big smoking holes in the ground... Not that I doubt most of you 380 F/Os would do a wonderful job.
As an aside - the two second courses of 777 to 380 are cancelled. From a little birdie in my shell-like. (that means 'ear' for those of you who can't see the difference between Knight and Night
)
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Also, ladies and gents; If you look at the bottom of the seniority list you'll see many new-joiners going to 330. I would deduce from that that they are to replace 330 F/Os upgrading on 330, who are upgrading to replace 330 skippers going to 380.
Elementary my dear Watson
Elementary my dear Watson
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So far the one aspect of upgrades on 380 that hasn't been discussed and is the most important one: politics.
If TC doesn't want it, then AR, TCAS and the rest of the puppets don't dear to say anything. Although the course is ready, its not approved yet, and will not be for a long time. Also some of the golden oldies of the the 380 don't like the idea, cz then they don't feel special anymore.
Same happened to the Ipad, shafted due politics. Civil servants and bureaucracy, lack of industrial revolution.
If TC doesn't want it, then AR, TCAS and the rest of the puppets don't dear to say anything. Although the course is ready, its not approved yet, and will not be for a long time. Also some of the golden oldies of the the 380 don't like the idea, cz then they don't feel special anymore.
Same happened to the Ipad, shafted due politics. Civil servants and bureaucracy, lack of industrial revolution.
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anything to disparage the 380
I think you misread the reaction of Boeing people to the A380 faithful. It's not disparagement, it's mild amusement tinged with pity for anyone who could be so self-deluded. Sort of like meeting a modern-day Communist.
Why not dredge out a flight plan for NYC for both types? Brace yourself for a small shock. The 380 carries an extra ten tons on that trip for which it squanders an extra 60 tons of fuel. So six tons of fuel wasted for every ton in which it outdoes the 777.
That's not just bad business and a noxiously inefficient airframe, it is a crime against common sense and the environment.
Emirates has 380s because they were essentially free and they make nice mobile billboards. As it becomes more and more important to actually operate efficient and well-designed airplanes they will gradually disappear. I am looking forward to the spin which explains that move as the existence of the bloated blighted device on our flight line is a tragedy which cries out for a little humour.
Why not dredge out a flight plan for NYC for both types? Brace yourself for a small shock. The 380 carries an extra ten tons on that trip for which it squanders an extra 60 tons of fuel. So six tons of fuel wasted for every ton in which it outdoes the 777.
That's not just bad business and a noxiously inefficient airframe, it is a crime against common sense and the environment.
Emirates has 380s because they were essentially free and they make nice mobile billboards. As it becomes more and more important to actually operate efficient and well-designed airplanes they will gradually disappear. I am looking forward to the spin which explains that move as the existence of the bloated blighted device on our flight line is a tragedy which cries out for a little humour.
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At the end of the day the 380 right now carries basically the same amount of payload as a 300ER. The early 15 380 only earned their stay because EK only paid about M$85 for it (List price ~M$300). That's a lot of gas to squander...
Of course that will improve with future versions, but not by more than 10 or 15 tons of payload per airplane.
My guess is that they use the next 40 or so 380's as a bargaining chip to get more destinations in germany and other parts of europe. If they don't get them they'll cancel 380's and 350's as needed and kill Lufthansa and Air France with 777XR's (Or whatever they'll be called).
I don't think EK will ever have more than 50 380's in service.
Of course that will improve with future versions, but not by more than 10 or 15 tons of payload per airplane.
My guess is that they use the next 40 or so 380's as a bargaining chip to get more destinations in germany and other parts of europe. If they don't get them they'll cancel 380's and 350's as needed and kill Lufthansa and Air France with 777XR's (Or whatever they'll be called).
I don't think EK will ever have more than 50 380's in service.
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Originally Posted by I B
At the end of the day the 380 right now carries basically the same amount of payload as a 300ER
Payload isn't everything when you can shovel 90 premium pax into an airframe. I believe the 400 odd Y class and the little bit of freight are free earnings
If you check the loads on the 380 sectors premium is invariably 90% plus load factor - of full revenue pax. (Check Apollo)
As far as I can see, EK can operate every morning flight to Europe with the 380 (except maybe Athens), plenty of scope in Asia and India. Africa is opening up. MEL and BNE would work. The groundstaff in BHX are asking for 380 to operate 39/40... Whether you're Airbus or Boeing you have to concede that the passengers love it... It's a very comfortable way to travel the world
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It never ceases to amaze me on this forum the amount of crap people spout as fact!!
Example: InnocentBystander claims that the first 15 A380's cost $85m each????
Are you crazy?? It is well known in the industry that manufactures and Airlines NEVER disclose the amount paid for aircraft when doing deals. I have no doubt that EK got a great deal on them, but for gods sake be sensible man!!
Unless you are TC or Sheik A, there is no way you could possibly know the intricacies of the business deals between Airbus and EK, so I urge you to produce evidence of your claim or remove it all together!
And then we have Dropp with the age old nonsense about the A380 only carrying 10t more payload than the B777..... As WK alluded to, just how much monetary value are you allocating to 10t worth of First and Business Class pax and the extra 100 Y class pax?? You know very well that Payload alone doesn't even begin to tell a financial story. If it did, then Net Jets wouldn't make any money on the 1 passenger they have on board.
Be sensible chaps, EK is very good at making money PERIOD! Do you honestly think they would order 90 A380's and be talking about more if they didn't make money? That my friends is the simple fact of the matter.... Nuff Said!
Example: InnocentBystander claims that the first 15 A380's cost $85m each????
Are you crazy?? It is well known in the industry that manufactures and Airlines NEVER disclose the amount paid for aircraft when doing deals. I have no doubt that EK got a great deal on them, but for gods sake be sensible man!!
Unless you are TC or Sheik A, there is no way you could possibly know the intricacies of the business deals between Airbus and EK, so I urge you to produce evidence of your claim or remove it all together!
And then we have Dropp with the age old nonsense about the A380 only carrying 10t more payload than the B777..... As WK alluded to, just how much monetary value are you allocating to 10t worth of First and Business Class pax and the extra 100 Y class pax?? You know very well that Payload alone doesn't even begin to tell a financial story. If it did, then Net Jets wouldn't make any money on the 1 passenger they have on board.
Be sensible chaps, EK is very good at making money PERIOD! Do you honestly think they would order 90 A380's and be talking about more if they didn't make money? That my friends is the simple fact of the matter.... Nuff Said!
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YYZ station manager told me he made more money per flight when the 777 did it then when the 380 now flies it.
The reason is the freight. Even though the 380 carries 155 more pax and almost 50% more up front pax it doesn't offset the fuel burn and no freight.
I would love to see the actual numbers but that is one manager's belief told to me.
The reason is the freight. Even though the 380 carries 155 more pax and almost 50% more up front pax it doesn't offset the fuel burn and no freight.
I would love to see the actual numbers but that is one manager's belief told to me.