World is changing will QR change ?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Al khor
Age: 75
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
World is changing will QR change ?
Gbagbo ,Gaddafi ,Mubarak are removed from power after years and years of dictatorship can we expect more dictators to be brought to court and face judge for their misstreatment and harrasement ?
Is a 5 start Airline of one of world's richest country place for dictator ?
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Posts: 315
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wiz
I admire your direct approach. I think taking into acoount the fiscal reports from the Company finances, lateral thinking and flexibility on behalf of the Managers and good intentions from the CEO I think the answer might be - NO! 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: carribean
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No
Qatar Airways company template is very simple: "we give you a type rate and nothing more". This airline won't have any problem with pilot shortage. Why ? Simple again. They know there are a lot of pilots willing to face this kind of treatment and stay in this crap environment for three years to get a nice brand new aircraft type stamped on their licenses. Some of them will face even a little bit more to get an upgrade and then "Khalas". They will go home or to somewhere else. This is the reason that nothing here will ever change. Simply I give you a type rate and you give me your life for three years . The situation will get worse when the cadet program starts. It will feed all Goat needs. Every 5 years a bunch of new Captains will come out from the oven. Experience ? It is not a big issue up here. Just look around or check it. Joining Qatar Airways (QR) - all you need to know about it (threads merged). The Goat doesn't want any kind of commitment with its pilots. Unfortunately some pilots become wrapped up in this country for some reason. They will stay here until being kicked out just for one Evian water.
Last edited by Blacksteel7; 12th Apr 2011 at 12:57.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AAB
AAB is very good manager every year he has 400 -600 people resign & terminated and he brings anouther 400-600 to replace them thats so financialy good for an Airline we dont want to mantion reputation impact .
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: middleast
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats Qatar airways paradox...:
They simply don't care if loyalty problem cost a lot to the airline...(they haven't done anything to solve this problem!)
BUT...on the other hand If they can save just a couple of riyals by downgrading crew's hotel , they will do it.!
They simply don't care if loyalty problem cost a lot to the airline...(they haven't done anything to solve this problem!)
BUT...on the other hand If they can save just a couple of riyals by downgrading crew's hotel , they will do it.!
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: S.H.
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ronaldo 330...
And all who are involved in the other QR thread here in Knoteetingham...........
The latest from the Worlds "5 Star" Airline...
Yes, Akbar has been very successful, for a number of reasons, and some of them definitely 'dubious' from a modern-management perspective and seem to result from what, to a sane outsider seems to be the result of a Gulf-typical xenophobic dislike of outsiders, yet at the same time, a grudging realisation that without those outsiders, things can't/won't be done!
Akbar has (and I have to give him credit here
) used (ruthlessly) 'guest-worker' expertise to drive QR from where it was when he was 'annointed' to take over QR in 1997 from the other lunatic that previously ran QR - Bozo the Clown, AKA as Sheikh Hamad.
The growth of the airline is, and always has been, Akbar's primary focus, and QR has got where it is today without any need whatsoever to upgrade its management-style, its HR practices, or its organisational culture, because it simply hasn't ever never needed to.
As a (so-called) 'guest-worker' in Qatar with QR, you really need to COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND that Akbar only gives a **** about A) himself, B) the owners of the airline, C) the financiers (if other than B), and D) himself. In that order.
If you have any doubts whatsoever, re-read priorities A) - D) above. Then re-read them. They are the facts of life as they exist in QR.
I'm not a fan of Akbars 'mercurial' short-fused management style. And I have experienced it first-hand, so can, I think, comment here on PPRuNe about it with some 'authority'.
Continued complaints here on PPRuNe about T&Cs in QR and/or the petty dismissal code for umpteen million so-called 'transgressions ignore the fact that while Akbar's driving the show, the Qatari way, and is (and always has been) smart enough to take advantage of the fact that while the supply of guest-worker aviation personnel continues to exceed demand, he CAN (and will) do EXACTLY as he likes, and HOW he likes, WHEN he likes, because while the status quo remains, he doesn't need to think about changing QR's HR practices or T&Cs for the purposes of improving staff motivation and reducing employee turnover.
Simply Ronaldo 330, employee happiness and motivation is not a QR management priority.
It never has been, and never will be, at least not as far as I can judge, in the foreseeable future.
And it's pretty much the same at EK, EY and a lot of other airlines too these days, by the sounds of things.
Get used to it. If Akbar can get away with cutting costs by downgrading crew accommodation etc etc., then he will do it, because he knows that as things presently stand, he doesn't need to give a **** about how his actions affect staff.
It's the same in other airlines, and loc22550, and no airline CEO these days seems to give a stuff about staff loyalty ('engagement'), or the true cost to the organisation of a 'disengaged' staff, because that cost doesn't usually get included as a P&L item, and it isn't immediately apparent in its effect on the bottom line of the Balance Sheet.
So, yes, it is a paradox, as you correctly have identified, because the true cost of such a myopic (backward??) management style defies logic in an environment such as the Gulf, where money's importance is paramount in the mindset of big is good, bigger is better, and biggest is BEST.
A typical 'little Dick' syndrome that despite the effects of the GFC is still alive and well in the Gulf, on show for all to see!
Forensically, a 'disengaged' staff leads to increased employee turnover and increased absenteeism. The cost of employee turnover is about 150% of the employees'remuneration package for EACH voluntary and involuntary resignation, however the management metrics used by QR and a lot of other airlines don't seem to take that cost into account.
The answer? You won't/can't change the way Akbar manages QR until the demand for guest-worker aviation personnel > (available) supply for outfits such as QR in the Gulf. EOS (End Of Story = Khalas).
For anyone who's not a GCC passport holder, the answer's pretty simple really for life in the Gulf as an expatriate, and that's (as it was, and ever more shall be) when the bucket of **** gets heavier than the bucket of money it's time to leave.
....which is exactly what I did.
إن شاء الله
And all who are involved in the other QR thread here in Knoteetingham...........
The latest from the Worlds "5 Star" Airline...
Yes, Akbar has been very successful, for a number of reasons, and some of them definitely 'dubious' from a modern-management perspective and seem to result from what, to a sane outsider seems to be the result of a Gulf-typical xenophobic dislike of outsiders, yet at the same time, a grudging realisation that without those outsiders, things can't/won't be done!
Akbar has (and I have to give him credit here
) used (ruthlessly) 'guest-worker' expertise to drive QR from where it was when he was 'annointed' to take over QR in 1997 from the other lunatic that previously ran QR - Bozo the Clown, AKA as Sheikh Hamad.The growth of the airline is, and always has been, Akbar's primary focus, and QR has got where it is today without any need whatsoever to upgrade its management-style, its HR practices, or its organisational culture, because it simply hasn't ever never needed to.
As a (so-called) 'guest-worker' in Qatar with QR, you really need to COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND that Akbar only gives a **** about A) himself, B) the owners of the airline, C) the financiers (if other than B), and D) himself. In that order.
If you have any doubts whatsoever, re-read priorities A) - D) above. Then re-read them. They are the facts of life as they exist in QR.
I'm not a fan of Akbars 'mercurial' short-fused management style. And I have experienced it first-hand, so can, I think, comment here on PPRuNe about it with some 'authority'.
Continued complaints here on PPRuNe about T&Cs in QR and/or the petty dismissal code for umpteen million so-called 'transgressions ignore the fact that while Akbar's driving the show, the Qatari way, and is (and always has been) smart enough to take advantage of the fact that while the supply of guest-worker aviation personnel continues to exceed demand, he CAN (and will) do EXACTLY as he likes, and HOW he likes, WHEN he likes, because while the status quo remains, he doesn't need to think about changing QR's HR practices or T&Cs for the purposes of improving staff motivation and reducing employee turnover.
Simply Ronaldo 330, employee happiness and motivation is not a QR management priority.
It never has been, and never will be, at least not as far as I can judge, in the foreseeable future.
And it's pretty much the same at EK, EY and a lot of other airlines too these days, by the sounds of things.
Get used to it. If Akbar can get away with cutting costs by downgrading crew accommodation etc etc., then he will do it, because he knows that as things presently stand, he doesn't need to give a **** about how his actions affect staff.
It's the same in other airlines, and loc22550, and no airline CEO these days seems to give a stuff about staff loyalty ('engagement'), or the true cost to the organisation of a 'disengaged' staff, because that cost doesn't usually get included as a P&L item, and it isn't immediately apparent in its effect on the bottom line of the Balance Sheet.
So, yes, it is a paradox, as you correctly have identified, because the true cost of such a myopic (backward??) management style defies logic in an environment such as the Gulf, where money's importance is paramount in the mindset of big is good, bigger is better, and biggest is BEST.
A typical 'little Dick' syndrome that despite the effects of the GFC is still alive and well in the Gulf, on show for all to see!
Forensically, a 'disengaged' staff leads to increased employee turnover and increased absenteeism. The cost of employee turnover is about 150% of the employees'remuneration package for EACH voluntary and involuntary resignation, however the management metrics used by QR and a lot of other airlines don't seem to take that cost into account.
The answer? You won't/can't change the way Akbar manages QR until the demand for guest-worker aviation personnel > (available) supply for outfits such as QR in the Gulf. EOS (End Of Story = Khalas).
For anyone who's not a GCC passport holder, the answer's pretty simple really for life in the Gulf as an expatriate, and that's (as it was, and ever more shall be) when the bucket of **** gets heavier than the bucket of money it's time to leave.
....which is exactly what I did.
إن شاء الله
Last edited by chainsaw; 15th Apr 2011 at 10:25. Reason: Thanks for the +ve feedback FFR! :-)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Al khor
Age: 75
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DOG
EVERY DOG HAS HIS TIME !
When his time come no one will even turn to see him or maybe just to spit in his face where ever he land in any part of world .
When his time come no one will even turn to see him or maybe just to spit in his face where ever he land in any part of world .
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: middleast
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AAB Very ""successful""...??
Chainsaw, if i'm the CEO of a company with 500+ resignations/year,and i'm struggling every day to fill the gap...as a manager sorry but i would feel myself very lucky rather than very ""successful""in what i'm doing...
Chainsaw, if i'm the CEO of a company with 500+ resignations/year,and i'm struggling every day to fill the gap...as a manager sorry but i would feel myself very lucky rather than very ""successful""in what i'm doing...
Last edited by loc22550; 15th Apr 2011 at 18:44.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: S.H.
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let me say right at the outset, I'm no fan of QR, but things need to be put into their correct perspective here.
loc22550, you seem to demur about whether Akbar has been successful.
I guess it depends on which metrics you use to come up with an answer to that loc22550.
Let's consider growth/expansion of the airline vs. staff turnover metrics.
An average 30% per annum growth since 1997 for the airline, presently ranked amongst the top 10 airlines by Skytrax, with it being classed as a 5 star airline vs. EK as a four star airline, 100 destinations, and a present fleet 95 aircraft, with 182 on order (sure, a lot of the present 95 will be replaced by the aircraft on order).
In 2005 QR had 42 aircraft and 56 destinations (Strategic Direction - The Airline Industry Volume 22 Numer 6 2006).
Fourteen years ago loc22550, when Akbar took over as the ringmaster of circus QR, the airline had 2 B747-100's, a clapped-out B747SP that was sold to the Foreign Minister (and which resulted in an absolute debacle at the time), 4 B727's, and two A300-600's. There were then about 15 destinations. Athens and Istanbul had previously been destinations, but they were cancelled in 1996 I think (?).
So, by the measures of succeeding in his endeavours to make the airline grow, which has clearly resulted in a favourable outcome for QR (in terms of its Skytrax ranking), and Akbar's award of 2005 Airline Personality of the Year Award at the 12th World Travel Awards, then you'd have to say that Akbar has been successful.
However, from the ongoing posts here on PPRuNe concerning QR staff 'disengagement', and from your alleged staff turnover figures, then 'yes', I'd agree with you that Akbar has been unsuccessful in the field of HR management.
But as mentioned in my previous post, Akbar simply doesn't need to worry about staff 'engagement' or 'disengagement' matters.
I'm not saying if you don't like it leave loc22550, as seems to be the usual GCC response to expatriates if they express disatisfaction, but the impression I get is that your bucket of **** seems to be heavier than your bucket of money, so I have to ask why you bother to keep on keeping on at QR (if that's actually where you are)?
There's lots of jobs elsewhere these days if you care to look, particularly if you've got A330 or B777 time.
loc22550, you seem to demur about whether Akbar has been successful.
Successful
— adj
1. having succeeded in one's endeavours
2. marked by a favourable outcome
3. having obtained fame, wealth, etc
— adj
1. having succeeded in one's endeavours
2. marked by a favourable outcome
3. having obtained fame, wealth, etc
Let's consider growth/expansion of the airline vs. staff turnover metrics.
An average 30% per annum growth since 1997 for the airline, presently ranked amongst the top 10 airlines by Skytrax, with it being classed as a 5 star airline vs. EK as a four star airline, 100 destinations, and a present fleet 95 aircraft, with 182 on order (sure, a lot of the present 95 will be replaced by the aircraft on order).
In 2005 QR had 42 aircraft and 56 destinations (Strategic Direction - The Airline Industry Volume 22 Numer 6 2006).
Fourteen years ago loc22550, when Akbar took over as the ringmaster of circus QR, the airline had 2 B747-100's, a clapped-out B747SP that was sold to the Foreign Minister (and which resulted in an absolute debacle at the time), 4 B727's, and two A300-600's. There were then about 15 destinations. Athens and Istanbul had previously been destinations, but they were cancelled in 1996 I think (?).
So, by the measures of succeeding in his endeavours to make the airline grow, which has clearly resulted in a favourable outcome for QR (in terms of its Skytrax ranking), and Akbar's award of 2005 Airline Personality of the Year Award at the 12th World Travel Awards, then you'd have to say that Akbar has been successful.
However, from the ongoing posts here on PPRuNe concerning QR staff 'disengagement', and from your alleged staff turnover figures, then 'yes', I'd agree with you that Akbar has been unsuccessful in the field of HR management.
But as mentioned in my previous post, Akbar simply doesn't need to worry about staff 'engagement' or 'disengagement' matters.
I'm not saying if you don't like it leave loc22550, as seems to be the usual GCC response to expatriates if they express disatisfaction, but the impression I get is that your bucket of **** seems to be heavier than your bucket of money, so I have to ask why you bother to keep on keeping on at QR (if that's actually where you are)?
There's lots of jobs elsewhere these days if you care to look, particularly if you've got A330 or B777 time.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: S.H.
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Damn you really think to be impressed by this dictator "success"story..
You're allowing YOUR prejudice towards QR to override the FACTS relating to the airline's growth loc2250, so nice try, but no banana.
I suggest you take a few moments to actually read ALL that I wrote before you shoot from the lip.
When (if) you take the time to do so, you'll see that I actually said that I'm no fan of QR and that Akbar has been unsuccessful in the field of HR management.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Or could it just be that AAB is the lucky monkey who was on top of the tree the day the Al-thani's decided they wanted to play "airline" games and gave him a bottomless pit of money to spend.
All his 5 stars and huge growth plans are great but they won't look so good when some excessively fatigued A320 pilots bang it into a mountainside some rainy night at 3 am on the subcontinent. This industry isn't like all others chainsaw, all this breakneck growth you like so much is a BAD thing unless it's managed correctly to maintain safety standards. P1ssing off your pilots so much that half of them leave every couple years and all the experience is constantly draining out of the airline, that cannot be ignored or apologized for. I don't care two coppers about skytrax 5 star ratings, the man is a very bad and dangerous manager of airlines and the day will come when he has blood on his hands.
All the warning signs are there right now
All his 5 stars and huge growth plans are great but they won't look so good when some excessively fatigued A320 pilots bang it into a mountainside some rainy night at 3 am on the subcontinent. This industry isn't like all others chainsaw, all this breakneck growth you like so much is a BAD thing unless it's managed correctly to maintain safety standards. P1ssing off your pilots so much that half of them leave every couple years and all the experience is constantly draining out of the airline, that cannot be ignored or apologized for. I don't care two coppers about skytrax 5 star ratings, the man is a very bad and dangerous manager of airlines and the day will come when he has blood on his hands.
All the warning signs are there right now
Last edited by Luke SkyToddler; 16th Apr 2011 at 09:42.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: S.H.
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Luke,
I completely agree with you, but as yet, QR hasn't had a 'biggie', so you're hypothesis seems without foundation until the facts prove otherwise.
QR has come close to a major event though - the classic one being the Dhaka A300 high speed RTO in '98, which was incorrectly reported as the result of a birdstrike.
Having said that, Air France's appalling safety record over the last few years is nothing to ignore, and at the moment, QR has a long way to go to beat that record I'm afraid.
Still, anything's possible, as you infer, particularly if you have a toxic work environment like seems to (still) exist at QR.
I completely agree with you, but as yet, QR hasn't had a 'biggie', so you're hypothesis seems without foundation until the facts prove otherwise.
QR has come close to a major event though - the classic one being the Dhaka A300 high speed RTO in '98, which was incorrectly reported as the result of a birdstrike.
Having said that, Air France's appalling safety record over the last few years is nothing to ignore, and at the moment, QR has a long way to go to beat that record I'm afraid.
Still, anything's possible, as you infer, particularly if you have a toxic work environment like seems to (still) exist at QR.