Life at Emirates
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Life at Emirates
I wrote this reply to a fellow aviator seeking some unbiased info on life at Emirates. Thought I might make it available to everyone:
No, our rosters are not that bad...
Layovers for the A340 are:
MUC, DUS, MXP,DME, VCE, MAD, PVG, PEK, SEZ, EBB, DAR, TIP, LOS, ACC
Layovers for the A330 are:
NCL, NCE, FCO, MLA, PRG, CCU, NBO, TUN, CMN, DUR, DKR
Of the turnarounds on the A330, I find 15 flts at night and 19 during the day. The A340 has fewer T/A flights, didn't count the ratio there...
Our OM-A says this regarding night duties:
Should any duties be scheduled to be carried out within any part of the period
between 0200 and 0459 local time, for a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 3
consecutive nights, then crew members will finish the duty preceding this
series of duties by 2100 hours local time before covering the block of
consecutive night duties, such that crew members can take a rest period
during a local night.
Note: In the event of 2100 hours being inadvertently exceeded, then only the
first of any 3 planned consecutive night duties that impinge on any part of the
period 0200 to 0459 hours local time may be undertaken.
A maximum of 3 consecutive nights and 4 in 7 consecutive days must not be
exceeded and the criteria for ‘Interrupted Rest’ (see paragraph 7.9.3) must be
applied.
As you can see, you might get 3 consecutive night duties or 4 nights in 7 days. This is the limit.
As far as the practice, I'm not quite sure as I manage to avoid most night T/A as a trainer. I do know that the line guys complain of a lot of night flying, so it's definitely a factor. But when you look at the 15/19 ratio night/ day for T/A flights, you can then statistically plan on 44% night T/A's...
Where we have two daily layover flights, one of them is typically a night return landing DXB in the morning.
Minimum rest before next flight is 12hr's or length of previous duty, whichever is longer. Again, these are minimum requirements, and doesn't happen very often. Seldom will you land after an all-nighter and go straight back out the same night (to the best of my knowledge).
Time to command is presently 4 years, 3 months on the B777 and 5 years, 3 months on the A330. This info is on two randomly selected FO's presently finishing up their upgrades. I cannot guarantee they are representative, but I think so. Keep in mind that the B777 fleet is about twice as large as the A330 fleet, so a new B777 FO will thus have about twice as many senior FO's in front of him for an upgrade on his fleet. My sentiments are that with the continued A380 deliveries and the pending A350 deliveries, the Airbus fleet will grow quicker than the Boeing fleet in the future, thereby reducing the relative time to command on the Airbus fleet. There is presently no upgrades on the A380 for the FO's on that fleet. They are transferred to the A330 after a freeze period for their upgrade. This must change in the future as we eventually will phase out our A330/ A340's...
Regarding lifestyle on the A380, at the moment it's superior - only a couple of T/A's and great layover destinations. This will obviously change when we increase the fleet size over the present 15, when deliveries commence in September. I understand Emirates is pressing Airbus for a weight increase to 600t (!) to be able to operate to the US West Coast. This will serve to expand it's radius and open up new possibilities for ULR flight on that fleet - definitely good news.
Regarding CCQ to the A340, the OM-A states:
A330/340 Cross Crew Qualification (CCQ)
Normal policy is to Cross Crew Qualify (CCQ) all suitable pilots for Mixed Fleet
Flying (MFF) operations. Pilots selected for CCQ must be deemed competent
by the Fleet Management to maintain MFF standards.
To be eligible for CCQ, the pilot shall complete 3 months and 150 hours flying
on the base aeroplane, and this must include at least 1 Operator Proficiency
Check (which may be the initial Operator Proficiency Check).
Mixed Fleet Flying (MFF) Policy
Before exercising the privileges of 2 licence endorsements, a pilot must
complete two consecutive Operator Proficiency Checks and have 500 hours in
the relevant crew position with Emirates.
Regarding the current practice, I think it is between 1,5 and two years after joining at the moment, but I stand to be corrected (anyone?)
Do keep in mind that these are only my best guess as what might happen in the future. Having said that, I strongly believe I'm not too far from the truth.
Hope this additional information helps. keep in mind that I definitely don't sit on all relevant info, and this is my opinion only (disclaimer!) Best of luck on your decision. I wish you a warm welcome if you decide to join us. We need all the pilots we can entice to join I think...
Tajfaa
No, our rosters are not that bad...
Layovers for the A340 are:
MUC, DUS, MXP,DME, VCE, MAD, PVG, PEK, SEZ, EBB, DAR, TIP, LOS, ACC
Layovers for the A330 are:
NCL, NCE, FCO, MLA, PRG, CCU, NBO, TUN, CMN, DUR, DKR
Of the turnarounds on the A330, I find 15 flts at night and 19 during the day. The A340 has fewer T/A flights, didn't count the ratio there...
Our OM-A says this regarding night duties:
Should any duties be scheduled to be carried out within any part of the period
between 0200 and 0459 local time, for a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 3
consecutive nights, then crew members will finish the duty preceding this
series of duties by 2100 hours local time before covering the block of
consecutive night duties, such that crew members can take a rest period
during a local night.
Note: In the event of 2100 hours being inadvertently exceeded, then only the
first of any 3 planned consecutive night duties that impinge on any part of the
period 0200 to 0459 hours local time may be undertaken.
A maximum of 3 consecutive nights and 4 in 7 consecutive days must not be
exceeded and the criteria for ‘Interrupted Rest’ (see paragraph 7.9.3) must be
applied.
As you can see, you might get 3 consecutive night duties or 4 nights in 7 days. This is the limit.
As far as the practice, I'm not quite sure as I manage to avoid most night T/A as a trainer. I do know that the line guys complain of a lot of night flying, so it's definitely a factor. But when you look at the 15/19 ratio night/ day for T/A flights, you can then statistically plan on 44% night T/A's...
Where we have two daily layover flights, one of them is typically a night return landing DXB in the morning.
Minimum rest before next flight is 12hr's or length of previous duty, whichever is longer. Again, these are minimum requirements, and doesn't happen very often. Seldom will you land after an all-nighter and go straight back out the same night (to the best of my knowledge).
Time to command is presently 4 years, 3 months on the B777 and 5 years, 3 months on the A330. This info is on two randomly selected FO's presently finishing up their upgrades. I cannot guarantee they are representative, but I think so. Keep in mind that the B777 fleet is about twice as large as the A330 fleet, so a new B777 FO will thus have about twice as many senior FO's in front of him for an upgrade on his fleet. My sentiments are that with the continued A380 deliveries and the pending A350 deliveries, the Airbus fleet will grow quicker than the Boeing fleet in the future, thereby reducing the relative time to command on the Airbus fleet. There is presently no upgrades on the A380 for the FO's on that fleet. They are transferred to the A330 after a freeze period for their upgrade. This must change in the future as we eventually will phase out our A330/ A340's...
Regarding lifestyle on the A380, at the moment it's superior - only a couple of T/A's and great layover destinations. This will obviously change when we increase the fleet size over the present 15, when deliveries commence in September. I understand Emirates is pressing Airbus for a weight increase to 600t (!) to be able to operate to the US West Coast. This will serve to expand it's radius and open up new possibilities for ULR flight on that fleet - definitely good news.
Regarding CCQ to the A340, the OM-A states:
A330/340 Cross Crew Qualification (CCQ)
Normal policy is to Cross Crew Qualify (CCQ) all suitable pilots for Mixed Fleet
Flying (MFF) operations. Pilots selected for CCQ must be deemed competent
by the Fleet Management to maintain MFF standards.
To be eligible for CCQ, the pilot shall complete 3 months and 150 hours flying
on the base aeroplane, and this must include at least 1 Operator Proficiency
Check (which may be the initial Operator Proficiency Check).
Mixed Fleet Flying (MFF) Policy
Before exercising the privileges of 2 licence endorsements, a pilot must
complete two consecutive Operator Proficiency Checks and have 500 hours in
the relevant crew position with Emirates.
Regarding the current practice, I think it is between 1,5 and two years after joining at the moment, but I stand to be corrected (anyone?)
Do keep in mind that these are only my best guess as what might happen in the future. Having said that, I strongly believe I'm not too far from the truth.
Hope this additional information helps. keep in mind that I definitely don't sit on all relevant info, and this is my opinion only (disclaimer!) Best of luck on your decision. I wish you a warm welcome if you decide to join us. We need all the pilots we can entice to join I think...
Tajfaa
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Aussie; they are desperate but delusional. They still believe there are enough out there with the current experience criteria to fill the slots to keep growing and to fill those left by those 'enticed' elsewhere.
They could 'entice' all the pilots they need by treating the ones they have better and not resort to a blatant HR lackey to post a thread such as this...desperate. There are so many many holes in the info presented it's difficult to know where to start. Probably the first is the fact that the OMA referenced means NOTHING and has and will change as required.
They're wrong to disregard the experience you mention, but so they are on so many other issues. It will change but only when aircraft are grounded.
They could 'entice' all the pilots they need by treating the ones they have better and not resort to a blatant HR lackey to post a thread such as this...desperate. There are so many many holes in the info presented it's difficult to know where to start. Probably the first is the fact that the OMA referenced means NOTHING and has and will change as required.
They're wrong to disregard the experience you mention, but so they are on so many other issues. It will change but only when aircraft are grounded.
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Location: Dubai
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Spin...
Sometimes the urge to just give up can be quite overpowering...
I knew the moaners would be all over this to try and rip it to shreds. What I have written is FACT - verifiable. Where I have made an educated guess, I have clearly indicated that.
I'm not saying life at Emirates is perfect, but I do believe getting the right facts will help prospective new joiners make their decision.
Maybe someone ought to look up the definition for spin as well...
Anyway...
Tajfaa
I knew the moaners would be all over this to try and rip it to shreds. What I have written is FACT - verifiable. Where I have made an educated guess, I have clearly indicated that.
I'm not saying life at Emirates is perfect, but I do believe getting the right facts will help prospective new joiners make their decision.
Maybe someone ought to look up the definition for spin as well...
Anyway...
Tajfaa
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There are the Emirates 'facts' you have chosen to share and practical experience these facts turn out to be. The 'facts' omit the numerous changes that have taken place through bitter experience despite anything written in the GCAA fiction piece The OMA.
The snapshot you present simply bears no resemblance to the future that is likely to be experienced.
Enticed? More like ensnared.
The snapshot you present simply bears no resemblance to the future that is likely to be experienced.
Enticed? More like ensnared.
Last edited by Marooned; 1st Mar 2011 at 16:00.
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Marooned said:
""There are the Emirates 'facts' you have chosen to share and practical experience these facts turn out to be. The 'facts' omit the numerous changes that have taken place through bitter experience despite anything written in the GCAA fiction piece The OMA.
The snapshot you present simply bears no resemblance to the future that is likely to be experienced.
Enticed? More like ensnared.""
**************************************************
Marooned... could not have said it better myself. Spot on!!
The road show I attended was glitz and glamour and I must admit when I joined a number of years ago, there was a lot of that during the early years. But that presentation ended up being NOWHERE NEAR what my then future held here at EK.
Very disappointing. Funny how they never told the group that they can simply change the contract on you... at any time they wish! And all of us from the home country certainly didn't ever figure we would even have to ask that question... how could anyone just change a contract without one's consent for it to be legal? Oh Naive us.....
Welcome to the UAE and EK!!
78 hrs to 92 hours
Utilities Cap on villas
No 3% payraise a few years back per contract we all signed
The list goes on and on......
You think you can live with all that??? I thought I could too but it really frustrates me these days.
K
""There are the Emirates 'facts' you have chosen to share and practical experience these facts turn out to be. The 'facts' omit the numerous changes that have taken place through bitter experience despite anything written in the GCAA fiction piece The OMA.
The snapshot you present simply bears no resemblance to the future that is likely to be experienced.
Enticed? More like ensnared.""
**************************************************
Marooned... could not have said it better myself. Spot on!!
The road show I attended was glitz and glamour and I must admit when I joined a number of years ago, there was a lot of that during the early years. But that presentation ended up being NOWHERE NEAR what my then future held here at EK.
Very disappointing. Funny how they never told the group that they can simply change the contract on you... at any time they wish! And all of us from the home country certainly didn't ever figure we would even have to ask that question... how could anyone just change a contract without one's consent for it to be legal? Oh Naive us.....
Welcome to the UAE and EK!!
78 hrs to 92 hours
Utilities Cap on villas
No 3% payraise a few years back per contract we all signed
The list goes on and on......
You think you can live with all that??? I thought I could too but it really frustrates me these days.
K
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What I signed up for and what I get now is totally different, they changed the package so many times, but never for the better.
Ok, now you ask me why I am still here? I would have never come if I knew what I know now but now I am too old to go anywhere and that will happen to anybody who joins, you cant start at the bottom of the seniority list once you are too old.
my 2 fils
Ok, now you ask me why I am still here? I would have never come if I knew what I know now but now I am too old to go anywhere and that will happen to anybody who joins, you cant start at the bottom of the seniority list once you are too old.
my 2 fils
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Goretex,
Could not agree more. If they had offered me what we actually have now I would not be here. The package that was on the table in '07/early'08 was much better than what they shoved down our throats in fall '08. I know that I and many of my coworkers who started in '07/early '08 feel very cheated. Keep in mind we are the same group who spent up to a year+ in temporary accommodation when we showed up. In fact, I was still in temp when they announced the pay cuts, fleet transfer and upgrade changes and lifestyle degradation policies. My friends who were already here in '07 showed me their bottom bid rosters from that time and now they would be a dream in 2nd top.
OK, the inevitable question, "why don't you leave then?" I'll give them until May to step up and give us what we deserve and make the package what they need to fill the recruiting quota. If they don't then I, along with many of my friends, will be actively looking for anything else.
Could not agree more. If they had offered me what we actually have now I would not be here. The package that was on the table in '07/early'08 was much better than what they shoved down our throats in fall '08. I know that I and many of my coworkers who started in '07/early '08 feel very cheated. Keep in mind we are the same group who spent up to a year+ in temporary accommodation when we showed up. In fact, I was still in temp when they announced the pay cuts, fleet transfer and upgrade changes and lifestyle degradation policies. My friends who were already here in '07 showed me their bottom bid rosters from that time and now they would be a dream in 2nd top.
OK, the inevitable question, "why don't you leave then?" I'll give them until May to step up and give us what we deserve and make the package what they need to fill the recruiting quota. If they don't then I, along with many of my friends, will be actively looking for anything else.
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If they don't then I, along with many of my friends, will be actively looking for anything else.
With oil prices heading higher (perhaps long term) there might not be much to choose from....elsewhere.
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411, if oil stays high then the world, as a whole, is in trouble and Dubai, which is already sitting on the thin edge of the blade, will fall quickly (led by its cash cow - Emirates).
This is going to get interesting quickly. EK has to hire 700 pilots in the next year to cover growth and the resume pile is already dry.
Now add to this the turmoil in the Middle East and what person in his right mind is going to move his family to Dubai???? While I don't expect anything to happen in the UAE the neighboring counties are all having difficulties (except Qatar and Kuwait) and more importantly, for the average person not from the ME, it is TOO CLOSE for comfort. I suspect that the recruiting pool will really dry up now.
I know EK believes that Dubai is no longer a 'hardship' post. That changed a few weeks ago. The risk to moving here increased exponentially a few weeks ago. This is true whether it is reality or a perception. The cost to attract pilots just went up and the value of KEEPING pilots did as well (GF will find this out quickly if they are not proactive).
But I doubt EK will do anything about it and we will slip further.
This is going to get interesting quickly. EK has to hire 700 pilots in the next year to cover growth and the resume pile is already dry.
Now add to this the turmoil in the Middle East and what person in his right mind is going to move his family to Dubai???? While I don't expect anything to happen in the UAE the neighboring counties are all having difficulties (except Qatar and Kuwait) and more importantly, for the average person not from the ME, it is TOO CLOSE for comfort. I suspect that the recruiting pool will really dry up now.
I know EK believes that Dubai is no longer a 'hardship' post. That changed a few weeks ago. The risk to moving here increased exponentially a few weeks ago. This is true whether it is reality or a perception. The cost to attract pilots just went up and the value of KEEPING pilots did as well (GF will find this out quickly if they are not proactive).
But I doubt EK will do anything about it and we will slip further.
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oil price to fall
Nice coordinated managerial pumping attempt.
You official EK pumpers are getting paid by the words or by post?
I don't get a dime for my bashing it comes just spontaneous.
You official EK pumpers are getting paid by the words or by post?
I don't get a dime for my bashing it comes just spontaneous.
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Anyone know if there is truth to the rumour that one of the big FO moaners from the US who did a runner last year to his furlough protected job in the US has asked to return?
F
F
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411A,
There are plenty of other opportunities out there. EK is no longer the only game in town and considering all the changes, it isn't even one of the top choices anymore.
There are plenty of other opportunities out there. EK is no longer the only game in town and considering all the changes, it isn't even one of the top choices anymore.
Last edited by MosEisley; 2nd Mar 2011 at 18:15.
Yes and what price EK after you get the first protest rally or the first protester shot?
Sorry, but you speak out of total ignorance.
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Quote:
Yes and what price EK after you get the first protest rally or the first protester shot?
Yes and what price EK after you get the first protest rally or the first protester shot?
Just today I saw a few hundred Emiratis marching from the Burj Khalifa to Starbucks chanting about how they can't afford the price of new Ferraris, and that the latest government housing has only 2 maid's rooms leaving no space for the butlers or drivers.
I predict a riot.
PS Google is your friend if you wish to obtain greater knowledge before posting.