Lufthansa and Emirates ......
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Lufthansa and Emirates ......
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It's ok for Emirates to buy 90+ A380s. After all this creates jobs and revenue for the EU and especially Germany (same applies to B777 part-manufacturing in Canada).
But then they refuse Emirates to use these machines on their soil. They argument that this might cost some jobs!
Back home the more sophisticated called such behavior hypocritical, the others simply cheap.
But I guess it's like Russel Peters said, with a nice head-wobble: 'They pronounce it cheap, but they mean smart' ......
But then they refuse Emirates to use these machines on their soil. They argument that this might cost some jobs!
Back home the more sophisticated called such behavior hypocritical, the others simply cheap.
But I guess it's like Russel Peters said, with a nice head-wobble: 'They pronounce it cheap, but they mean smart' ......
Last edited by pool; 16th Jan 2011 at 11:19.
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Yup, there is an argument. Because they buy planes they should have free reign and do whatever business they like in Germany!!??
This coming from a country that is part of an oil cartel that artificially sets oil prices!!!!! Would it be fair then for Germany to say that they will allow full access IF they can buy oil at $25 barrel?? After all they are buying oil from the cartel and have been for FAR longer than EK has been around!
This coming from a country that is part of an oil cartel that artificially sets oil prices!!!!! Would it be fair then for Germany to say that they will allow full access IF they can buy oil at $25 barrel?? After all they are buying oil from the cartel and have been for FAR longer than EK has been around!
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Understand where your coming from pool. But think of it this way: If you want to start a taxi company, and the first thing you do is buy a fleet of cars before you have built any roads to drive on, or an even more direct comparison: the place where your proposed customer base is in a location owned by your competitor, that happens to have a taxi company already, who is at fault if you don't get any business?
As the vehicle seller, who am I to say what you will do with the taxi's? Not my business. You may have wanted to drive on my neighbors streets, but then you may well have though about negotiating that before buying all the cars. Or maybe try to wrap it into the deal for the cars.
Food for thought. Hypocrisy has nothing to do with it.
As the vehicle seller, who am I to say what you will do with the taxi's? Not my business. You may have wanted to drive on my neighbors streets, but then you may well have though about negotiating that before buying all the cars. Or maybe try to wrap it into the deal for the cars.
Food for thought. Hypocrisy has nothing to do with it.
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@Kijangnim
Although Dubai's economy was built on the back of the oil industry,[72] revenues from oil and natural gas currently account for less than 6% of the emirate's revenues.[7] It is estimated that Dubai produces 50,000 to 70,000 barrels (11,000 m3) of oil a day[73] and substantial quantities of gas from offshore fields. The emirate's share in UAE's gas revenues is about 2%. Dubai's oil reserves have diminished significantly and are expected to be exhausted in 20 years
But you might also want to correct the guys at Reuters who just issued this:
Dubai announced a new oilfield discovery on Thursday, raising hopes of a boost to both oil output and revenues for the cash-strapped emirate...Dubai said on Thursday the field was east of the producing Rashid oilfield, but did not say how far. Rashid is one of Dubai's four main oilfields, so it may be able to use Rashid's infrastructure for the new production.
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Trader and Bananas:
Nobody implies that buying an Airbus entitles you to fly to Europe. Just as little as buying oil entitles you to fly into any OPEC country. Trade means you buy what you do not have and sell what you have. Since the early trading days there has always been some equilibrium between partners, not absolute numbers, but some balance, or one of the trade partners reacted. Today one of the most mentioned values is trade deficit or surplus, which is a huge reactive factor.
It takes little to detect how big the trade surplus is from the EU or Germany, or from Canada for instance. It also takes takes little economical basics to understand how much the Emirates orders of 380 and 350 aircraft means to Airbus and Europe.
The UAE can offer oil and airlift, the West the technology and equipment. To a certain extent one partner can certainly choose what to buy and to sell. But no western country would sell the ME oil rigging equipment without wanting a piece of the pumped oil. Just remember the rhetoric of 1973 when they initiated the oil embargo: "They buy our technology to pump oil but refuse to give us some. How utterly hypocritical!" Very true, as it was not balanced trade but political armwrestling. As today in a reciprocal way.
I do not like the moronic behavior of the ME spoilt elite. But I'm all for fair trade, something the West normally so fervently defends ..... at least as long as it serves them we realize now.
Nobody implies that buying an Airbus entitles you to fly to Europe. Just as little as buying oil entitles you to fly into any OPEC country. Trade means you buy what you do not have and sell what you have. Since the early trading days there has always been some equilibrium between partners, not absolute numbers, but some balance, or one of the trade partners reacted. Today one of the most mentioned values is trade deficit or surplus, which is a huge reactive factor.
It takes little to detect how big the trade surplus is from the EU or Germany, or from Canada for instance. It also takes takes little economical basics to understand how much the Emirates orders of 380 and 350 aircraft means to Airbus and Europe.
The UAE can offer oil and airlift, the West the technology and equipment. To a certain extent one partner can certainly choose what to buy and to sell. But no western country would sell the ME oil rigging equipment without wanting a piece of the pumped oil. Just remember the rhetoric of 1973 when they initiated the oil embargo: "They buy our technology to pump oil but refuse to give us some. How utterly hypocritical!" Very true, as it was not balanced trade but political armwrestling. As today in a reciprocal way.
I do not like the moronic behavior of the ME spoilt elite. But I'm all for fair trade, something the West normally so fervently defends ..... at least as long as it serves them we realize now.
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fair trade??
EK= de facto state owned and state sponsored airline.
No enforced employee or consumer protection laws or anti trust regulations...no unions...based on working conditions for most of the employees that amounts to slavery...etc. etc.
Fair trade my a$$ !!!
No enforced employee or consumer protection laws or anti trust regulations...no unions...based on working conditions for most of the employees that amounts to slavery...etc. etc.
Fair trade my a$$ !!!
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Agree pool. So the hard part is to find that balance. And I would think that always, two parties disagree on where the fair balance lies.
Tell me this. Do you believe that the UAE flies a lot, or a little to Europe? Also, do you believe their current flights are enough to serve the UAE community or are a great portion of the flights serving though traffic? Because if so, that is a contentious issue with many players at the table trying to share. And many just don't have the tools that the UAE has to compete fairly(ie:shubilsky), so they are using "other" tools, like a negative "Emirates" pr spin.
Point is, the AC orders are pure indulgent hubris expecting more than entitled through balanced fair growth and trade as you so suggest.
Tell me this. Do you believe that the UAE flies a lot, or a little to Europe? Also, do you believe their current flights are enough to serve the UAE community or are a great portion of the flights serving though traffic? Because if so, that is a contentious issue with many players at the table trying to share. And many just don't have the tools that the UAE has to compete fairly(ie:shubilsky), so they are using "other" tools, like a negative "Emirates" pr spin.
Point is, the AC orders are pure indulgent hubris expecting more than entitled through balanced fair growth and trade as you so suggest.
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Why Air France,Lufthansa KLM AIr Canada fight against EK?because instead of beeing inovative and bring a good product to their passengers and trying to MAKE money,they try to SAVE money.
AF is a champion to annoy passengers(in any kind of idea) and loose them!but who cares?if they go bankrupt(like in 1998 or so,17billion Euros debts)the government will pay.
AF is a champion to annoy passengers(in any kind of idea) and loose them!but who cares?if they go bankrupt(like in 1998 or so,17billion Euros debts)the government will pay.
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Desertbananas
You hit on a basic difference of interpretation whereon the politicians and press masterfully play the fiddle:
The EU and Canada look at airlift as a solitary entity of trade. Thus they pretend that the UAE has enough capacity to serve its country.
The UAE looks at airlift as a trade contained in the whole trade complement and therefore do not count flight/passenger numbers, but the total trade volume.
So it all comes down to which point of view you share.
As for the unfair (slavery) advantage of the ME. This is so true, but applies to many trades in many developing countries. The West still buys Chinese goods, don't they? What about their laws, labor and human rights conditions? If you go down that road, go down the whole way.
On the other hand, I agree to a certain extent with the unfair advantage argument. This would be the card I would play, not the protectionist one:
- Why not try to level the fields with i.e.more audits, spot checks etc.? A thorough audit of EK, EY and especially the GCAA would spread panic around here and reveal a lot of such unfair practices (but again, you would have to accept more transparency at home as well and, believe me, there is a lot of similar mud hidden there, so it will not happen).
- Some spot checks of logbooks of passing crew would reveal some fatigue related issues, if you apply the NASA or other competent research values (but again, it would reveal similar practices if you'd check some outfits in the west).
- Some more strict investigations into errors of crews could reveal blatant skill and training deficits (and again some European companies would look just as bad).
You see, my remedy would not work, as globalization has slowly but surely leveled the field to the lower common denominator. Been there, seen that.
But this takes a lot of steam out of Schibulinskilitis argument: The West is no longer very far from slavery as well!
One should not throw stones in a porcelain shop.
You hit on a basic difference of interpretation whereon the politicians and press masterfully play the fiddle:
The EU and Canada look at airlift as a solitary entity of trade. Thus they pretend that the UAE has enough capacity to serve its country.
The UAE looks at airlift as a trade contained in the whole trade complement and therefore do not count flight/passenger numbers, but the total trade volume.
So it all comes down to which point of view you share.
As for the unfair (slavery) advantage of the ME. This is so true, but applies to many trades in many developing countries. The West still buys Chinese goods, don't they? What about their laws, labor and human rights conditions? If you go down that road, go down the whole way.
On the other hand, I agree to a certain extent with the unfair advantage argument. This would be the card I would play, not the protectionist one:
- Why not try to level the fields with i.e.more audits, spot checks etc.? A thorough audit of EK, EY and especially the GCAA would spread panic around here and reveal a lot of such unfair practices (but again, you would have to accept more transparency at home as well and, believe me, there is a lot of similar mud hidden there, so it will not happen).
- Some spot checks of logbooks of passing crew would reveal some fatigue related issues, if you apply the NASA or other competent research values (but again, it would reveal similar practices if you'd check some outfits in the west).
- Some more strict investigations into errors of crews could reveal blatant skill and training deficits (and again some European companies would look just as bad).
You see, my remedy would not work, as globalization has slowly but surely leveled the field to the lower common denominator. Been there, seen that.
But this takes a lot of steam out of Schibulinskilitis argument: The West is no longer very far from slavery as well!
One should not throw stones in a porcelain shop.
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EK does NOT buy fuel at a cheaper price than other airlines!!absolutely wrong
The joke of the year.
So tell me why did 2 of your ACs needed deicing last week one at FRA one at HAM? Temp between 5 and 8C and RA?
Maybe some tons of extra Fuel from DXB? For the rain or for the price?
The joke of the year.
So tell me why did 2 of your ACs needed deicing last week one at FRA one at HAM? Temp between 5 and 8C and RA?
Maybe some tons of extra Fuel from DXB? For the rain or for the price?
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The Germans are running scared just like the Canadians. Unlike EK, LH's product is sub-standard (nothing special or unique). If I were EK I would start flying future A380s on all allotted German routes and frequencies to maximise its revenue in that market since access will be limited going forward. Make it a bit cheaper (not much cheaper) and easier for all Germans to get to Middle East, India and Asian destinations (especially highlighting those LH does not serve).
The joke of the year.
There are a number of ports from which we tanker fuel IN to Dubai from, as it's cheaper!!
Maybe some tons of extra Fuel from DXB? For the rain or for the price?
In short- you have no idea what you are talking about....
REF joke of the year ,
long haul flight, then turnround in less than 2 hours regularly means ice patches on top of wing in damp conditions and temps as quoted. Am told by crew of problem with 345 downunder in the summer where due to cold soak then short transit had the same problem but no de-ice avail !
long haul flight, then turnround in less than 2 hours regularly means ice patches on top of wing in damp conditions and temps as quoted. Am told by crew of problem with 345 downunder in the summer where due to cold soak then short transit had the same problem but no de-ice avail !
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quality product?
The Germans are running scared just like the Canadians.
Without the help of the government in a open and "fair" market.
Unlike EK, LH's product is sub-standard (nothing special or unique).
LH has an outstanding training, maintenance and operations standard, while EK is a dog and pony show compared to that!
Let's start with EK's new shiny aircrafts with meter long lists of deferred items, pilots entering a cockpit while the APU is running and no wobbly "mechanic" is there to explain why some CBs are pulled or popped etc...
The MCC is always happy to send aircrafts to Germany to have problem items fixed that the own maintenance is not able to solve.
The flight operation is a complete joke run mainly by leftover Poms and some locals like the clueless malicious clown AAR...and there are high fives at the OCC when the on time rate reaches 50%.
Ground operations managed to lose my bags at least twice a year while that never happened with LH ever. Lots of fun with the EK "lost" baggage department.
Why do you think there are almost no ex LH pilots working for EK?
(I know only of one who came for family reasons)
Even pilots coming from LH subsidiaries are truly shocked after they went through what EK calls training!
All that would cost money that EK invests rather in the only inventive PR and marketing departments.
The inflight entertainment is indeed world class (when it works properly) but I personally don't need that anyway. The service from the mostly 3rd world cabin crew is IMHO overrated and on the way down and some of the cabins of "older" B777 and A330 look more like Biman or AirIndia to me...
As a full paying pax don't get me started with the "help" you get from their hotlines etc. so I am preferring SIA now with a truly great service and comparable prices.
They are part of an alliance, the real way of fair global business...working together worldwide and leave the local markets to the local partners....like in a real partnership.
EK would never be part of that, they are the greedy predators without any interest in a partnership...
And what a joke is that fuel price issue? Achmed pays from his airline to his fuel supplier...left pocket to right pocket
!Anyway...hope my fellow Krauts will kick their greedy a$$es...
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Schil....
How we can compare Germany, one of the most advanced countries in the world both socially and economically with the UAE, a fascist/middle age country runned on slavery whose only merit is to have made a hole in the sand.. well not even that... the BP fuickers did.
EK is just a scam runned on intimidation and exploitation with the business model of Mc Donalds.
Oil will be no longer a factor in shorter then predicted time and is better for them to start changing. Human and worker rights and then we talk about fair trade!
I would put levies on any goods coming form country whose salaries, social benefit and rights are susbstantially inferior from western standard.Europe is starting to realize the backlashes of freetrade and globalization and will have to do something about it or there will be increasing social unrest.
How we can compare Germany, one of the most advanced countries in the world both socially and economically with the UAE, a fascist/middle age country runned on slavery whose only merit is to have made a hole in the sand.. well not even that... the BP fuickers did.
EK is just a scam runned on intimidation and exploitation with the business model of Mc Donalds.
Oil will be no longer a factor in shorter then predicted time and is better for them to start changing. Human and worker rights and then we talk about fair trade!
I would put levies on any goods coming form country whose salaries, social benefit and rights are susbstantially inferior from western standard.Europe is starting to realize the backlashes of freetrade and globalization and will have to do something about it or there will be increasing social unrest.