Getting out of EK
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Getting out of EK
For those Americans or those millions more with American passports, green cards, right to work etc looking to get out of Emirates there are three US airlines that are going to hire this year or early next year.
JB, Air Tran and Delta are all ramping up hiring with the economy picking up. If you want to get out of the sand you should look into applying to those airlines. We all know you will have to start at the bottom of the list (no DECs allowed in the US) but your life will improve immensly as we all know.
With what Emirates has done to its employees I would guess that many of you will be applying.
Good luck to all of you.
JB, Air Tran and Delta are all ramping up hiring with the economy picking up. If you want to get out of the sand you should look into applying to those airlines. We all know you will have to start at the bottom of the list (no DECs allowed in the US) but your life will improve immensly as we all know.
With what Emirates has done to its employees I would guess that many of you will be applying.
Good luck to all of you.
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For the record new tomcat does NOT work for EK so buyer beware. Going back to a country in recession and an airline that will furlough you (again) in a few years may not be a great idea.
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Hmmm, let's see.
Live and work with civil protections and rights in a place where you have that little thing called FREEDOM (in all respects), but risk the possibly of Furlough.
Or, stay in the Middle East and enjoy all the human rights it has to offer.
Tough choice. I'll have to get back to you on that one.
Live and work with civil protections and rights in a place where you have that little thing called FREEDOM (in all respects), but risk the possibly of Furlough.
Or, stay in the Middle East and enjoy all the human rights it has to offer.
Tough choice. I'll have to get back to you on that one.
where you have that little thing called FREEDOM (in all respects), [/B]
Went to Disney over the summer.
Playing in the pool with my kids, put my young daughter on my shoulders-
"Sir, you'll have to stop that or you'll have to leave the pool" says some spotty teenage lifeguard.
There are different kinds of freedom. In the relentless pursuit of some kinds (such as the freedom to sue) the US, and other Western countries have curtailed a lot of OTHER types of freedom (like the freedom to make an Adult assesment of risk).
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Originally Posted by PappyJ
stay in the Middle East and enjoy all the human rights it has to offer.
And don't get me started on the freedoms in Orstralia
Talk about a 'nanny state'
Probably worse than most of the 'west'.....
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Hmmmm.
Of the 3 you mentioned, only DL would be worth the move.
Of the 3 you mentioned, only DL would be worth the move.
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Why? Both AirTran and JB start out at a lower salary than EK but top out higher. Not to mention proper rosters and lots of days off. Both seem to have similar times to command (4-6 years).
Well, I would agree with the first part. Air Tran and JetBlue start at about 1/3 of the EK pay after tax. They do not top out higher on an after tax basis though, not even close.
There have been at least two people who have left Air Tran to join EK in the last year. More before that, captains included ( who came as F.O.s). So maybe it isn't all rose petals at the Tranny either.
First Officers at EK might be able to justify the move if they are young enough to make it up in the long slog to captain at the U.S. carriers, but financially it is a bad move for captains at EK. It would have to be a lifestyle/quality of life choice because it certainly doesn't make sense financially.
About 7 years ago I got an invite to Southwest for an interview right at the time I was doing my upgrade at EK. I did sit down and run the numbers for my remaining 20+ years. It came as a wash financially based on an 8 year upgrade at SWA and based on the Captain pay at EK at that time. As it turns out the upgrades at SWA will run way beyond 8 years and the pay at EK went up over 30% from my original computation so the move would have been bad financially. Lifestyle wise it would not have been good for me, but it may work for others.
.....and before I get slagged off for writing this, it isn't meant as a ringing endorsement of EK. I would love to be able to live in my home country, but the jobs there just don't pay enough or give enough time off to justify the move. Right now the best job I could get would be between a $75,000 and $100,000/year pay cut on an after tax basis.
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I'm not endorsing EK, but let's also be clear on the facts. Airtran and JB are NOT four to six year upgrades. Delta will only be hiring around 200 so they say. Out of those, Mesaba and Compass will take up at least 50% of the class with flowthrough agreements. Delta is straight reserve for at least two years right now, in junior domiciles (aka New York). Tough commute. Tougher yet with crash pad costs etc. If you're a single FO, might be your option. Married with kids, might be tough to take the paycut that comes with it, not to mention a potential commute, if you truly want to "live at your home".
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Guys ,
Quote: Salaries topping out higher...!?
After how many years please?
I realize EK is far from perfect, but please check your facts...
After less than 10y at EK, I'm now +170000USD /year. This does not include housing, school fees, provident fund...
, Quote: Salaries topping out higher...!?
After how many years please?
I realize EK is far from perfect, but please check your facts...
After less than 10y at EK, I'm now +170000USD /year. This does not include housing, school fees, provident fund...
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Relative of mine got called for an interview with Virgin America. Based out of San Francisco....so it may be a bit too liberal for guys who have become accustomed to the UAE.
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EK380 says "After less than 10y at EK, I'm now +170000USD /year. This does not include housing, school fees, provident fund..."
Think that's an exageration from my calculations. I've been here appreciably longer and don't get that from salary and variable pay.
Think that's an exageration from my calculations. I've been here appreciably longer and don't get that from salary and variable pay.
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How much?
EK380, you either hide behind a desk talking about flying but rarely do it, thinking of new FCIs to push your ex-colleagues to the limits for your 'bonus' or, even simpler, full of 
Hate to say it chaps but EK380s numbers work out to Aed52133 per month (exchange rate of 3.68 right?). I have been here near a decade and with training pay make a bit more than that, not including education, housing, ERP etc. No office work for me i am afraid.
Too bad they stole the overtime off us as i seem to be donating between Aed6000 to Aed7000 per to the company because of that travesty.
Min days off though, and most of those are stand alone and three days off in a row is very rare. What price do you put on life style?
the don
Too bad they stole the overtime off us as i seem to be donating between Aed6000 to Aed7000 per to the company because of that travesty.
Min days off though, and most of those are stand alone and three days off in a row is very rare. What price do you put on life style?
the don
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Don't forget you don't get anything but base pay for one and a half months while you're on leave. Admittedly I didn't sign on for the training treadmill but EK380 didn't say his $170,000 included training pay.
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Flynhigh,
Good money for hard work at Jet Blue clearly, however, what do you get paid for vacation or if you were to break your leg and couldn't work for a month or 2?
Just a thought.......... seems to me that if you don't fly, you don't earn much in the States. ie. very little or no 'BASIC' pay. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, don't forget to apply taxation (in a backwards sense) to the calculations and housing allowance.
Much as I hate to admit it on a public forum, our package (as a whole) is pretty good (considerably better in many cases than most US carriers), even if the lifestyle and work currently sucks!
Just to add some facts and figures for a single year 1 EK F/O who has chosen to live outside company accomodation:
Basic: 23,000dhs or $6300 usd (paid whether at work or not!)
Flight Pay for 85 hrs @ 45 dhs/hr: 3800 dhs or $1050
Housing allowance (must be taken into account): 12800 dhs/month or $3500
Total monthly: 39,600 dhs or $10,850
Now backwards tax at 30% (remember this is a tax free package): $14,100
Not a bad package for a year 1 F/O I would say??
Before anyone mentions provident fund contributions, that money will always be yours tax free when you decide to leave and if that happens to be after 7 years, you can also take all of the companies 12% contribution (tax free).
Please don't start posting stuff about free society this, sh1t sandy hot dustbowl that........ The above is in response to the question of pay and package.
Flynhigh, I suggest your buddies actually have a closer look at just how poor they are compared to you..... they (and you) could be in for a shock!!
Good money for hard work at Jet Blue clearly, however, what do you get paid for vacation or if you were to break your leg and couldn't work for a month or 2?
Just a thought.......... seems to me that if you don't fly, you don't earn much in the States. ie. very little or no 'BASIC' pay. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, don't forget to apply taxation (in a backwards sense) to the calculations and housing allowance.
Much as I hate to admit it on a public forum, our package (as a whole) is pretty good (considerably better in many cases than most US carriers), even if the lifestyle and work currently sucks!
Just to add some facts and figures for a single year 1 EK F/O who has chosen to live outside company accomodation:
Basic: 23,000dhs or $6300 usd (paid whether at work or not!)
Flight Pay for 85 hrs @ 45 dhs/hr: 3800 dhs or $1050
Housing allowance (must be taken into account): 12800 dhs/month or $3500
Total monthly: 39,600 dhs or $10,850
Now backwards tax at 30% (remember this is a tax free package): $14,100
Not a bad package for a year 1 F/O I would say??
Before anyone mentions provident fund contributions, that money will always be yours tax free when you decide to leave and if that happens to be after 7 years, you can also take all of the companies 12% contribution (tax free).
Please don't start posting stuff about free society this, sh1t sandy hot dustbowl that........ The above is in response to the question of pay and package.
Flynhigh, I suggest your buddies actually have a closer look at just how poor they are compared to you..... they (and you) could be in for a shock!!
Last edited by Oblaaspop; 23rd Sep 2010 at 20:41.
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Interesting read.
No doubt that newcomers at JB, SW, FL, DL would be paying significant taxes while working their balls off on short hops in the right seat for many years to come.
And then Bingo: It's furlough time, . . . just when you bought that new house and you're into the 2ND marriage with a high maintenance, back-talking California bimbo.
No doubt that newcomers at JB, SW, FL, DL would be paying significant taxes while working their balls off on short hops in the right seat for many years to come.
And then Bingo: It's furlough time, . . . just when you bought that new house and you're into the 2ND marriage with a high maintenance, back-talking California bimbo.
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Flynhigh,
Just to keep comparing apples to oranges, are you commuting? If so, where are you commuting to and how many actual days at home (not days off) are you getting realistically? Leaving the house at 5 a.m. to commute to work is not really a day at home. If not commuting, how long to get to a line holder in your base? When is upgrade available? How many is JB hiring this year and how long are new hires on reserve?
Are new hires expecting the same type of conditions that you had when you were a new hire (expansion, etc.).
And don't take that the wrong way either. I still think jetblue is a good company. I've ridden on you guys many times and am always thankful for the ride.
Obviously a new hire today at EK is not the same as it was five years ago. U.S. guys have a different taste of it than a lot of the others, simply from the fact that U.S. guys aren't used to living outside the borders. It's common culture for almost everyone else, but not in the U.S. Ask the Varig guys how they feel here. Upgrade on the Boeing is still just under four years. I'm not saying EK is great, but neither is the U.S. Prior to 9/11, the market was slowly failing with the dot com industries. 9/11 accelerated that. Furloughs, bankrupcty, whipsaw crap from one carrier to another, buying a bs "shadow" carrier to whipsaw, mergers, age 65, reducing medical insurance, paycuts, etc etc etc. U.S carriers are not Pan Am of old. They suck. Ride home on them, then ride home on EK, and you can see the difference. Furloughs with four kids sucks. Yes, Dubai is different and at times sucks. Sitting straight reserve in Detroit next to the Fat Boy restaurant with no end in sight sucked too (although the wheat and rye was great). Make it what it is. Be honest with yourselves. I don't like management here but Ed is gone. The new guy hasn't proven himself, whatever. But look at NWA and Delta management. You can spout contracts, ****, those guys violated contracts left and right and took years to settle as well. If NWA/Delta was in the interest to violate the contract, they did it and settled in arbitration. They don't honor contracts any more than EK does. The HUGE difference here is I don't worry about a paycheck here and I put the kids in bed a hell of a lot more at night than I ever did on reserve at Redtail. Apples to oranges. Make your own decision but make it smart. Can't handle being an expat, okay, fair enough and I respect that. It's not the U.S. Anyone coming here thinking it's the U.S. did not do their due diligence.
Just to keep comparing apples to oranges, are you commuting? If so, where are you commuting to and how many actual days at home (not days off) are you getting realistically? Leaving the house at 5 a.m. to commute to work is not really a day at home. If not commuting, how long to get to a line holder in your base? When is upgrade available? How many is JB hiring this year and how long are new hires on reserve?
Are new hires expecting the same type of conditions that you had when you were a new hire (expansion, etc.).
And don't take that the wrong way either. I still think jetblue is a good company. I've ridden on you guys many times and am always thankful for the ride.
Obviously a new hire today at EK is not the same as it was five years ago. U.S. guys have a different taste of it than a lot of the others, simply from the fact that U.S. guys aren't used to living outside the borders. It's common culture for almost everyone else, but not in the U.S. Ask the Varig guys how they feel here. Upgrade on the Boeing is still just under four years. I'm not saying EK is great, but neither is the U.S. Prior to 9/11, the market was slowly failing with the dot com industries. 9/11 accelerated that. Furloughs, bankrupcty, whipsaw crap from one carrier to another, buying a bs "shadow" carrier to whipsaw, mergers, age 65, reducing medical insurance, paycuts, etc etc etc. U.S carriers are not Pan Am of old. They suck. Ride home on them, then ride home on EK, and you can see the difference. Furloughs with four kids sucks. Yes, Dubai is different and at times sucks. Sitting straight reserve in Detroit next to the Fat Boy restaurant with no end in sight sucked too (although the wheat and rye was great). Make it what it is. Be honest with yourselves. I don't like management here but Ed is gone. The new guy hasn't proven himself, whatever. But look at NWA and Delta management. You can spout contracts, ****, those guys violated contracts left and right and took years to settle as well. If NWA/Delta was in the interest to violate the contract, they did it and settled in arbitration. They don't honor contracts any more than EK does. The HUGE difference here is I don't worry about a paycheck here and I put the kids in bed a hell of a lot more at night than I ever did on reserve at Redtail. Apples to oranges. Make your own decision but make it smart. Can't handle being an expat, okay, fair enough and I respect that. It's not the U.S. Anyone coming here thinking it's the U.S. did not do their due diligence.