To: Air Arabia pilots. From: UAE ACC
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boy....here we go again.
Mensaboy do not take it personally but can't you simply say that he is a tosser. We will all agree, promissed! Pls shorten your messages, we will understand it, no bother
Mensaboy do not take it personally but can't you simply say that he is a tosser. We will all agree, promissed! Pls shorten your messages, we will understand it, no bother
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This seems to have got way too intense, i don't normally post here but i that this is a pressing issue which needs resolving asap.
There is no need for it to become an us vs them situation, we all have to either fly in or control this airspace and therefore the more understanding there is between pilots and ATC, the better for us all.
From a UAE ACC point of view, pilots must realise that we are working to the rules and unless Dubai offers cancelation of speed and altitude restrictions, we will enforce them.
Holding has become an everyday event and it is far easier for us to vector you out of the hold than zig zag you across our limited airspace. SJ traffic has to hold because there is no other way to get you safely through the hold, we do try if the opportunity presents itself.
If you are based here then you know it can be chaos at times and we the ATC's do what we can with limited resources. RT space is at a premium, the fact that we have to call aircraft multiple times before getting a response certainly does raise the blood pressure and creates frustration.If ATC does not answer you they may be co ordinating with other units or sectors which could be to your benefit. Airmanship is another thing that is seriously suffering and I attribute this to the rapid growth of the local and sub continent airlines with many pilot being of limited experience.
As for speed reductions, if you are reduced to 250kts 100 nm out, it is purely to maintain spacing in order to avoid holding.
There is no need for it to become an us vs them situation, we all have to either fly in or control this airspace and therefore the more understanding there is between pilots and ATC, the better for us all.
From a UAE ACC point of view, pilots must realise that we are working to the rules and unless Dubai offers cancelation of speed and altitude restrictions, we will enforce them.
Holding has become an everyday event and it is far easier for us to vector you out of the hold than zig zag you across our limited airspace. SJ traffic has to hold because there is no other way to get you safely through the hold, we do try if the opportunity presents itself.
If you are based here then you know it can be chaos at times and we the ATC's do what we can with limited resources. RT space is at a premium, the fact that we have to call aircraft multiple times before getting a response certainly does raise the blood pressure and creates frustration.If ATC does not answer you they may be co ordinating with other units or sectors which could be to your benefit. Airmanship is another thing that is seriously suffering and I attribute this to the rapid growth of the local and sub continent airlines with many pilot being of limited experience.
As for speed reductions, if you are reduced to 250kts 100 nm out, it is purely to maintain spacing in order to avoid holding.
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Thanks, mensa! I had a good laugh when I read your posts. Two posts and 200+ words just to say I'm an idiot, I guess you really are a mensa member.
Why don't you make your communication suggestions to the training department in EK? I'm sure it will make a bigger impact than waving you finger here on PPRUNE.
Enjoy the weather and remember, it's not a recession, it's a challenge!
Why don't you make your communication suggestions to the training department in EK? I'm sure it will make a bigger impact than waving you finger here on PPRUNE.
Enjoy the weather and remember, it's not a recession, it's a challenge!
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1. Just to refresh my memory, can an ATC poster please let me know the minimum rate of descent that must be maintained when instructed to descend to a level/altitude. Is it a minimum of 500 FPM?
2. Can an ATC poster also let me know if there is a required rate of airspeed reduction when instructed to reduce speed from say 300kts to 250kts. I had a figure in my head of 1 knot per second reduction but can't find it written anywhere. I have have seen speed reduction done in many ways so I would like to know if there is a minimum rate required. Some people use speed brake and slow down quite quickly and others go to Vertical speed and just slow down at a very slow rate.
3. For the posters referring to a 5 page document available describing R/T procedures, there is a very good 19 page doc that was put out by Eurocontrol a few years ago titled "ALLCLEAR" - ICAO Standard Phraseology - A Quick Reference Guide for Commercial Air Transport Pilots.
You can Google it. I used to give a copy of it to all the guys I flew with that weren't native English speakers, but somehow had passed Level 4 English.
2. Can an ATC poster also let me know if there is a required rate of airspeed reduction when instructed to reduce speed from say 300kts to 250kts. I had a figure in my head of 1 knot per second reduction but can't find it written anywhere. I have have seen speed reduction done in many ways so I would like to know if there is a minimum rate required. Some people use speed brake and slow down quite quickly and others go to Vertical speed and just slow down at a very slow rate.
3. For the posters referring to a 5 page document available describing R/T procedures, there is a very good 19 page doc that was put out by Eurocontrol a few years ago titled "ALLCLEAR" - ICAO Standard Phraseology - A Quick Reference Guide for Commercial Air Transport Pilots.
You can Google it. I used to give a copy of it to all the guys I flew with that weren't native English speakers, but somehow had passed Level 4 English.
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Blueskye do you feel better now? Now that you've had your rant, and hopefully calmed down, can we have a rational and reasonable discussion about ATC-pilot communication please?
I understand that there is a lapse in communication standards, and that your point is that some of us pilots should be working harder to stick with standard phraseology. Your point is also well taken that given that it is your job to provide separation for us, our job is also to comply with ATC clearances expeditiously to assist in the process.
I am however compelled to point out to you that we are not all overpaid, under-educated, whining, American slang emulating prima donnas, as you and others have either stated or implied in the past. Try to understand that the vast majority of us are trying everyday to do the best possible job we can. Yes, we slip up sometimes, it's called "being human". You try performing optimally after being in a metal tube for 13 hrs, with little or no sleep, and after operating with minimum rest, and maximum legal hours for months on end. You are going to get the occasional slow reaction and missed call. There is also sometimes poor reception, or poor transmission, distractions in the cockpit, simultaneous talking on 121.5, calls from the back of the plane or from Company going on, so please try to cut us some slack, it's not like we get an immediate response from ATC everytime we make a call to you either, and we don't behave all prissy about it either.
Neither are you and your colleagues the paragons of knowledge when it comes to the rules of the air. I have been lambasted not once, but twice for slowing down AFTER being cleared for the approach into AUH. In my view this is just ignorant, petulant, arrogant and unprofessional. (as an aside, you can pass it on to your compadres that once you clear me for an approach WITHOUT re-issuing the speed restriction, the speed control is MINE.) If I screw up, mea culpa and I apologize, you guys should be man enough to do the same, this is seldom the case.
On another note, re: "Pilot's discretion" vs "When Ready"
Pilot’s Discretion: A phrase, when used in conjunction with altitude assignments, that means that ATC (air traffic control) has offered the pilot the option of starting to climb or descend whenever he or she wishes and conducting the climb or descent at a rate he or she desires. The pilot may level out at any intermediate altitude. However, once the pilot has vacated an altitude, he or she may not return to that altitude without clearance from ATC. The pilot must inform ATC when vacating an altitude.
When Ready: The pilot has the option to start descent when he or she chooses to the cleared level or altitude. However once descent has started, you cannot level off at an intermediate level or altitude and ATC expects a continuous rate of descent of at least 500 fpm.
Nuf said
DW
I understand that there is a lapse in communication standards, and that your point is that some of us pilots should be working harder to stick with standard phraseology. Your point is also well taken that given that it is your job to provide separation for us, our job is also to comply with ATC clearances expeditiously to assist in the process.
I am however compelled to point out to you that we are not all overpaid, under-educated, whining, American slang emulating prima donnas, as you and others have either stated or implied in the past. Try to understand that the vast majority of us are trying everyday to do the best possible job we can. Yes, we slip up sometimes, it's called "being human". You try performing optimally after being in a metal tube for 13 hrs, with little or no sleep, and after operating with minimum rest, and maximum legal hours for months on end. You are going to get the occasional slow reaction and missed call. There is also sometimes poor reception, or poor transmission, distractions in the cockpit, simultaneous talking on 121.5, calls from the back of the plane or from Company going on, so please try to cut us some slack, it's not like we get an immediate response from ATC everytime we make a call to you either, and we don't behave all prissy about it either.
Neither are you and your colleagues the paragons of knowledge when it comes to the rules of the air. I have been lambasted not once, but twice for slowing down AFTER being cleared for the approach into AUH. In my view this is just ignorant, petulant, arrogant and unprofessional. (as an aside, you can pass it on to your compadres that once you clear me for an approach WITHOUT re-issuing the speed restriction, the speed control is MINE.) If I screw up, mea culpa and I apologize, you guys should be man enough to do the same, this is seldom the case.
On another note, re: "Pilot's discretion" vs "When Ready"
Pilot’s Discretion: A phrase, when used in conjunction with altitude assignments, that means that ATC (air traffic control) has offered the pilot the option of starting to climb or descend whenever he or she wishes and conducting the climb or descent at a rate he or she desires. The pilot may level out at any intermediate altitude. However, once the pilot has vacated an altitude, he or she may not return to that altitude without clearance from ATC. The pilot must inform ATC when vacating an altitude.
When Ready: The pilot has the option to start descent when he or she chooses to the cleared level or altitude. However once descent has started, you cannot level off at an intermediate level or altitude and ATC expects a continuous rate of descent of at least 500 fpm.
Nuf said
DW
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Neither are you and your colleagues the paragons of knowledge when it comes to the rules of the air. ...... speed restriction, the speed control is MINE.) If I screw up, mea culpa and I apologize, you guys should be man enough to do the same, this is seldom the case.
R/T is as much a part of commercial flying as is lowering the landing gear and the overwhelming majority of pilots seem to remember this bit after thirteen hours. Everybody gets tired, I'm not arguing that point, but it's at this phase where standards and discipline are vital. It might be tedious saying the same thing over and over again but that's the whole purpose of standard r/t, no room for misunderstanding.
Own thread hijack. I'm waiting for the first complaint on this here exalted forum about the lower levels being issued when exiting the FIR to the west. Start getting used to FL220 or 240 to BALUS.
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Ha! I've said it before, and I'll say it again- if somebody showed Sheikh Ahmed how much fuel is wasted every year due to the stupidity and petulance of the Great Dane, he would be lynched. Literally.
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Neither are you and your colleagues the paragons of knowledge when it comes to the rules of the air. I have been lambasted not once, but twice for slowing down AFTER being cleared for the approach into AUH. In my view this is just ignorant, petulant, arrogant and unprofessional. (as an aside, you can pass it on to your compadres that once you clear me for an approach WITHOUT re-issuing the speed restriction, the speed control is MINE.)
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desert warrior,
It looks like you cut and pasted your definition of "Pilot's discretion" and I'd like to know where you got it from and who actually believes that. I have never seen or heard anything like that and would be very surprised if a controller who used that expression would then be happy to see an aircraft climb/descend and stop at any level they want at any time. Once you start your descent/climb, keep going until you get to your assigned level or tell ATC if you have to level off at an intermediate level.
We teach people to use the term interchangeably with "when ready..." and expect aircraft to climb/descend at 500fpm minimum, subject to any other restrictions the controller may impose.
Rusty bullet hole,
I don't know if it's written as a rule, but our manuals usually state that a clean aircraft can lose 1 knot per second, so that's roughly what we expect.
It looks like you cut and pasted your definition of "Pilot's discretion" and I'd like to know where you got it from and who actually believes that. I have never seen or heard anything like that and would be very surprised if a controller who used that expression would then be happy to see an aircraft climb/descend and stop at any level they want at any time. Once you start your descent/climb, keep going until you get to your assigned level or tell ATC if you have to level off at an intermediate level.
We teach people to use the term interchangeably with "when ready..." and expect aircraft to climb/descend at 500fpm minimum, subject to any other restrictions the controller may impose.
Rusty bullet hole,
I don't know if it's written as a rule, but our manuals usually state that a clean aircraft can lose 1 knot per second, so that's roughly what we expect.
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Atco 1962, that rate of slowing down at 1 knot per second was certainly a rule in Aussie when I was there years ago but I have since flown with guys from many different countries and when I suggest this is the rate that we should slow down at, you get the standard cockpit question "Where is that written?"
So I would really like to know the answer because generally using the Speedbrake is the only way to achieve this reduction and descend at minimum 500 FPM and many people are allergic to using the Speedbrake because some one told them it is bad descent planning or you upset the passengers.
So I would really like to know the answer because generally using the Speedbrake is the only way to achieve this reduction and descend at minimum 500 FPM and many people are allergic to using the Speedbrake because some one told them it is bad descent planning or you upset the passengers.
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2. Can an ATC poster also let me know if there is a required rate of airspeed reduction when instructed to reduce speed from say 300kts to 250kts. I had a figure in my head of 1 knot per second reduction but can't find it written anywhere. I have have seen speed reduction done in many ways so I would like to know if there is a minimum rate required. Some people use speed brake and slow down quite quickly and others go to Vertical speed and just slow down at a very slow rate.
1 knot per second seems pretty decent.
Oh! and on the original subject. It's amazing how three Air Arabia aircraft on your approach frequency can jam it up completely. Request this, maintaining that and can you please confirm reduce speed!
A nice Air Arabia chap even found it prudent recently to use frequency time telling me I was overloaded, while I was scrambling to get guys to the director frequency. Sick of it to be honest.
Last edited by Short Approach?; 11th Jul 2010 at 09:37. Reason: Remark on the original subject.
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I heard 10kts loss per NM as a guideline, which works out about the same as 1kt per second.
With respect to descent rate, if an aircraft is instructed to descend then a rate of between 1000-1500 fpm is appreciated. We know an early descent will keep most aircraft below their desired profile but sequencing requires aircraft at similar levels to be affective, failing that the hold becomes active. Keep in mind, ATC issue an early descent as they know that the aircraft will be reduced in speed prior to the STAR speed requirement thereby changing the aircraft's profile. As Short Approach indicates, a slow descent will result in slower speeds being issued.
My suggestion to Air Arabia, suck it in and take heed of the advice provided here, it will help your position in the sequence.
No response yet to the BALUS problem? Amazing how management brag about BALUS being one of the busiest waypoints (probably in the world). Great record to have. Operators have better get used to low levels through BALUS.
With respect to descent rate, if an aircraft is instructed to descend then a rate of between 1000-1500 fpm is appreciated. We know an early descent will keep most aircraft below their desired profile but sequencing requires aircraft at similar levels to be affective, failing that the hold becomes active. Keep in mind, ATC issue an early descent as they know that the aircraft will be reduced in speed prior to the STAR speed requirement thereby changing the aircraft's profile. As Short Approach indicates, a slow descent will result in slower speeds being issued.
My suggestion to Air Arabia, suck it in and take heed of the advice provided here, it will help your position in the sequence.
No response yet to the BALUS problem? Amazing how management brag about BALUS being one of the busiest waypoints (probably in the world). Great record to have. Operators have better get used to low levels through BALUS.
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I spent a good amount of time trying to find the rule in the ICAO Annexes yesterday, and was unable to find the reference, I haven't given up yet, however, I did find the following in the FAA AIM Section 4-4-12 under Speed Adjustments, quote:
Approach clearances supersede any prior speed adjustment assignments, and pilots are expected to make their own speed adjustments, as necessary, to complete the approach. Under certain circumstances, however, it may be necessary for ATC to issue further speed adjustments after approach clearance is issued to maintain separation between successive arrivals. Under such circumstances, previously issued speed adjustments will be restated if that speed is to be maintained or additional speed adjustments are requested. ATC must obtain pilot concurrence for speed adjustments after approach clearances are issued. Speed adjustments should not be assigned inside the final approach fix on final or a point 5 miles from the runway, whichever is closer to the runway.
Regards,
DW
Approach clearances supersede any prior speed adjustment assignments, and pilots are expected to make their own speed adjustments, as necessary, to complete the approach. Under certain circumstances, however, it may be necessary for ATC to issue further speed adjustments after approach clearance is issued to maintain separation between successive arrivals. Under such circumstances, previously issued speed adjustments will be restated if that speed is to be maintained or additional speed adjustments are requested. ATC must obtain pilot concurrence for speed adjustments after approach clearances are issued. Speed adjustments should not be assigned inside the final approach fix on final or a point 5 miles from the runway, whichever is closer to the runway.
Regards,
DW
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For all ATC colleagues.......as pilots, we can't anticipate your sequencing plans. You may give us a descent, well before our planned descent point....but without a target speed or time restriction at a specific point, we will/or our FMS will attempt to optimise the profile. Please give us all required info to allow us to best utilise the performance of the aircraft and also meet your ATC restrictions.
Thanks
Thanks
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Gypsy: If you receive an unexpected descent instruction out of the blue- say, you are 200nm to run at FL370, and get "UAExxx, descend now to FL 330", how is that achieved? What different ways are there to do it, and what is the most common way?
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First and foremost, tit-for-tat gets no-one no-where. So cop on and stop acting like a bunch of toddlers that have just chucked their dummies out of their cots! 
A few points:
Not all pilots are morons - in fact I've met more morons who are controllers! A lot of the carriers that fly through the UAE are, to say the least, pretty much below standard. Sometimes its like running a day care centre. But this is just down to the relevant infancy of aviation in this part of the world. Save a few airlines, most of the regional carriers (and this includes the indian sub-continent) employ home-grown pilots. Lack of experience, older aircraft, non-compliance with ICAO, poor english, etc all add to the heartbreak! But nevertheless, until such time as things mature, we're stuck with it. Now I don't mind repeating a clearance if its misunderstood. I do mind if its busy and someone simply aint listening or worse still they guess a clearance and it gets me into! I've generally found that as long as I'm courtieous and professional on frequency as well as speaking slowly and clearly, I don't normally have to repeat. I just don't understand why some controllers get all up in a tissy when they have to repeat themselves because they've just spoke in riddles. 
Now sometimes pilots ask for stuff - lower levels, higher levels, high speed, direct to, opposite rwy - you name it! I'll be happy to try to accommodate provided I'm not just after wetting myself because I'm overloaded. It never fails to amaze me why some ask the stupidest of questions when I'm clearly not in a position to answer. If its blatently obvious its busy, just do as your told - and everyone gets out alive. I work with a lot of fine controllers. Many with almost 30+ years experience. On the other hand I work with a lot of idiots. And I'm sorry taht you have to put up with incompetence. But were not all tainted and most of us work very hard to be expedidious and more importantly safe. Unfortunately, were stuck with a bunch of silly rules that make our work impossible at times. Yes, we've tried to change them but some have even got fired for speaking up! Shame, but were stuck for now. So please don't get angry for being put in the DESDI hold at midnight after a 10hr flight with little or no sleep. With the current regime, we are simply overloaded and can't cope. If things don't change and as traffic levels increase, it WILL get worse.
And just a point about DESDI and BUBIN - Yes the UAE ACC control all levels in these holds. Dubai App give us a spacing requirement, which we are obliged to comply with. Again, some controllers in Dubai work quite hard and efficiently to get everyone in. But then others are just pure lazy and are quite happy to put 8nm in trail spacing on finals as supposed to 4nm which others can do. Again, your holding because of spacing in Dubai. They have their rules, which I can't go into. But anyone from APP is free to post.
Personally I think Air Arabia are a good operator. Yeah, they ask for direct this and direct that and even when you put them in the hold, they seldom complain - well too much anyways. If I run a sequence, and OMDB and OMSJ arrival are neck and neck I will co-ordinate parrallel tracks with Dubai. It makes my life easier, more economical for the airlines as it allows both aircraft to fly their profiles without speed or level contraints. Again this is with Dubais approval and I can't ever see why they would refuse, but sometimes they do.
I would encourage any pilot to try to visit the centre. Its a great experience and there's a lot to be gained from doing it. Also, controllers should be allowed sit in on simulator rides to really appreciate what goes on. We do have familiarisation trips which some of us have done, and to great benefit.
So the next time you enter the DESDI hold at FL360, don't ask for lower - we cant give you lower. Next time you're given a speed reduction, reduce! Yeah the controller might be a complete incompetent tosser but he or she might probably be one of the 99% who are actually doing their best.
Remember - Sometimes your the windscreen and sometimes your the bug!!
And next time you fly to KJFK or EGLL, have a whinge when your told to either turn away from the airport or you'll be holding for an hour! Let me know what the response is!!
Shalom!
A few points:
Not all pilots are morons - in fact I've met more morons who are controllers! A lot of the carriers that fly through the UAE are, to say the least, pretty much below standard. Sometimes its like running a day care centre. But this is just down to the relevant infancy of aviation in this part of the world. Save a few airlines, most of the regional carriers (and this includes the indian sub-continent) employ home-grown pilots. Lack of experience, older aircraft, non-compliance with ICAO, poor english, etc all add to the heartbreak! But nevertheless, until such time as things mature, we're stuck with it. Now I don't mind repeating a clearance if its misunderstood. I do mind if its busy and someone simply aint listening or worse still they guess a clearance and it gets me into
! I've generally found that as long as I'm courtieous and professional on frequency as well as speaking slowly and clearly, I don't normally have to repeat. I just don't understand why some controllers get all up in a tissy when they have to repeat themselves because they've just spoke in riddles. Now sometimes pilots ask for stuff - lower levels, higher levels, high speed, direct to, opposite rwy - you name it! I'll be happy to try to accommodate provided I'm not just after wetting myself because I'm overloaded. It never fails to amaze me why some ask the stupidest of questions when I'm clearly not in a position to answer. If its blatently obvious its busy, just do as your told - and everyone gets out alive. I work with a lot of fine controllers. Many with almost 30+ years experience. On the other hand I work with a lot of idiots. And I'm sorry taht you have to put up with incompetence. But were not all tainted and most of us work very hard to be expedidious and more importantly safe. Unfortunately, were stuck with a bunch of silly rules that make our work impossible at times. Yes, we've tried to change them but some have even got fired for speaking up! Shame, but were stuck for now. So please don't get angry for being put in the DESDI hold at midnight after a 10hr flight with little or no sleep. With the current regime, we are simply overloaded and can't cope. If things don't change and as traffic levels increase, it WILL get worse.
And just a point about DESDI and BUBIN - Yes the UAE ACC control all levels in these holds. Dubai App give us a spacing requirement, which we are obliged to comply with. Again, some controllers in Dubai work quite hard and efficiently to get everyone in. But then others are just pure lazy and are quite happy to put 8nm in trail spacing on finals as supposed to 4nm which others can do. Again, your holding because of spacing in Dubai. They have their rules, which I can't go into. But anyone from APP is free to post.
Personally I think Air Arabia are a good operator. Yeah, they ask for direct this and direct that and even when you put them in the hold, they seldom complain - well too much anyways. If I run a sequence, and OMDB and OMSJ arrival are neck and neck I will co-ordinate parrallel tracks with Dubai. It makes my life easier, more economical for the airlines as it allows both aircraft to fly their profiles without speed or level contraints. Again this is with Dubais approval and I can't ever see why they would refuse, but sometimes they do.
I would encourage any pilot to try to visit the centre. Its a great experience and there's a lot to be gained from doing it. Also, controllers should be allowed sit in on simulator rides to really appreciate what goes on. We do have familiarisation trips which some of us have done, and to great benefit.
So the next time you enter the DESDI hold at FL360, don't ask for lower - we cant give you lower.
Next time you're given a speed reduction, reduce! Yeah the controller might be a complete incompetent tosser but he or she might probably be one of the 99% who are actually doing their best. Remember - Sometimes your the windscreen and sometimes your the bug!!
And next time you fly to KJFK or EGLL, have a whinge when your told to either turn away from the airport or you'll be holding for an hour! Let me know what the response is!!
Shalom!
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DW: I guess that FAA AIM are american documents?
I have also been reading through the ICAO docs, and I also cannot find anything other than what I mentioned already, so unless your continous search find something different I will keep expecting you to comply with any speed restrictions even if you are cleared for approach.
But also dont be shy to ask to slow down if you need, just request it and we will accomodate as much as possible.
I have also been reading through the ICAO docs, and I also cannot find anything other than what I mentioned already, so unless your continous search find something different I will keep expecting you to comply with any speed restrictions even if you are cleared for approach.
But also dont be shy to ask to slow down if you need, just request it and we will accomodate as much as possible.
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I'm pretty steamed right now, just spent the better part of an hour writing and researching a reply here, just to have it evaporate into cyberspace somewhere unknown. So this will be short.
ATCO1962
When Ready reference can be found in CAP413, pretty standard. The reference for Pilot's Discretion can be found here.
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi...4/aim0404.html
omaATC
I found another reference, this one from Transport Canada AIM RAC 9.7.3 which states
Issuance of an approach clearance normally cancels a speed adjustment; however, if the controller requires that a pilot maintain a speed adjustment after the issuance of the approach clearance, the controller will restate it.
Seeing as JAA seems mute on the subject, I stand by my original statement about speed after appraoch clearance, unless you can prove otherwise. Not trying to make your life more difficult, but we do have a Company mandate to be stable by 1000' and I don't like going around.
Anyone else care to comment?
DW
ATCO1962
When Ready reference can be found in CAP413, pretty standard. The reference for Pilot's Discretion can be found here.
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi...4/aim0404.html
omaATC
I found another reference, this one from Transport Canada AIM RAC 9.7.3 which states
Issuance of an approach clearance normally cancels a speed adjustment; however, if the controller requires that a pilot maintain a speed adjustment after the issuance of the approach clearance, the controller will restate it.
Seeing as JAA seems mute on the subject, I stand by my original statement about speed after appraoch clearance, unless you can prove otherwise. Not trying to make your life more difficult, but we do have a Company mandate to be stable by 1000' and I don't like going around.
Anyone else care to comment?
DW