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UAE offers to extend Forces' stay in exchange for more Canadian flights

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UAE offers to extend Forces' stay in exchange for more Canadian flights

Old 28th Feb 2010, 16:02
  #41 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Adrift upon the tides of fate
Posts: 1,837
Sorry Ferris, Qantas has not grown because of it's own frankenstein, Jetstar.
Err, no, I don't think Jetstar is competing with EK. It may have sucked up the cash QF could've used to defend it's market share, but let's face it, Jetstar is really just a method of reducing T&Cs. They couldn't get over the union hurdles in QF, so they just went around them. QF has made no attempt whatsoever to defend the market share the ME carriers have taken/grown.
So, the Canadians could;
- follow QF- cede market share to international aspirants such as EK, hunker down and .....I'm not really sure what the plan is after that (because hoping a low-yield, LCC will provide a long term alternative on international routes is planning to fail). Is this just where globalisation takes us- labour sourced from the cheapest place, every part of the 'business' outsourced etc etc.? This can only lead to increased leveling of the playing field ie. living standards in the developed nations fall and eventually meet the rising standards in developing nations...
- continue to hope that the authorities will not bow to market forces/political pressure/the inevitable and continue to protect AC
- open them up to competition, hoping that AC has the management capable of going head to head (using product differentiation/quality/pricing whatever) with the likes of EK.

The job market in Oz is stuffed because of LCC's.
Would you be saying that if Dixon et al had taken a different tack ie. dumped heaps of capacity on any competition (their usual modus operandi)? I could quite easily see a QF twice or three times as big as it currently is, doing almost all the flying that has gone to the likes of EK, SIA, Etihad, QR etc etc. It would have to look differently if treated as an ongoing business needing investment in product, marketing etc instead of, as it was, a cash cow for a very few golden years. What would the pilot job market look like then?

Low standard- you are not doing your self any favours. If you cannot compete with their product, the answer isnt to hurl insults at them. Or, if you think they are deserving of such ridicule- open the routes up and go to the market with that message. How much faith do you have in Canadians to "do the right thing"?? Better still- show how, exactly, they exploit an unfair competitive advantage. Claiming EK has nothing to offer Canada is disingenuous. You need to demonstrate that what they have to offer comes at a cost.
ferris is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2010, 16:06
  #42 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Middle East
Posts: 87
This blackmail threat from the UAE Dictator's (supported by their ass-licking EK subordinates) will go NOWHERE... And I am not in support of AC in this matter, that airline is a "basket case", I agree. The Foreign Affairs Department of Canada has a very dim view of UAE for very valid reason's..worker's rights, human rights etc...This is what is stopping EK from getting more slots into Canada, not the spin EK is putting (and some here believe) that it is all about protecting AC.

Canada's combat role in Afghanistan is due to end 2011. By the time this threat is actioned (it won't be) Canada may be preparing it's exodus anyway. They may continue in a non-combative role beyond that, but a decision is yet to come on that.

But...should these freaks in the UAE Gov't attempt to disallow Canadian Forces continued use of the airbase here in the UAE as a staging ground to Afghanistan, a VERY POWERFUL third player will become immediatley involved, the good 'ole Excited States of America. Canada's role has been seen as incredibly important (and, except for UK, far bigger than any other EU members of NATO,). Just imagine when Canada sends a "memo" to their NATO allies that they can no longer support the Afghan efforts because of UAE Gov't action. These tribal moron's will be told exactly where they stand...and Canada will not be restricted from using UAE bases.

This is an empty threat. Absolute nonsense.

jinglied is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2010, 16:57
  #43 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: gutter
Posts: 92
I said UAE, not EK. UAE as a "government" not EK as an Airline.

Name ONE thing that the UAE can offer Canada. Oil? Masafi Bottled Water? The 175th floor of the Burj Khalifa? Some waterfront property on "The World"? Some dates (with almonds)? Nothing.

EK as an airline, certainly but to go and use a threat as a negotiation tool? Major miscalculation on the UAE's behalf, dont think for a second the Canadian government will roll on that. In fact it will proabably set things back.

If I know Canadians, one thing they hate more than AC is some spoiled, condescending smart ass trying to place a threat on them. Especially when their citizens are spilling blood over here.
lowstandard is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2010, 17:21
  #44 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Post-Pit and Lovin' It.
Posts: 858

The good old false analogy- because I agree with EK gaining access to the Canadian market I must be a relentless sycophant for EK.
Well, no. Actually that opinion was derived from any random sampling of your posts on different topics re: EK.

A lot of what EK has done in the last two years has been reprehensible, immoral, and ultimatley counter-productive. That doesn't mean that the companies continues success will not be ultimatley more beneficial to it's employees than its failure.
I don't think EK will fail because it only has three flights/week to YYZ. That's the sort of rhetoric their own literature already contains.

Standing up to bullies is hardly the same thing as vindictiveness. If you truly believe that, opening markets to operators that are able to compete so efficiently largely due to their ability to leverage advantages such as a workforce with no contractual, legal or human rights protections, is the way forward then we really will just have to agree to disagree.

I have no love lost for Air Canada or any over-entitled company, legacy carrier, whatever...anywhere. But the alternative - a company with zero scruples, a cynical ability to lie their way past pretty much situation, to manipulate and abuse their employees without compunction, is not something I want having increased access to my country, which once was and once again soon will be my home. How your former home government deals with them is up to them. ferris does an excellent job detailing the shift in OZ of what you called the "thriving" aviation sector.

In the end you have made it clear that you only care about your own continued employment and enrichment, which you link to the success of EK. I'd like to think that there will still be pilot jobs one day that don't require one to hold their breath from the stench of their own company's practices while they try to make a living. This will be harder to achieve if the international markets are dominated by carriers based in the armpits of the planet like the UAE.
nolimitholdem is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2010, 17:38
  #45 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CYYZ
Posts: 6
Jinglied is bang on! The last country to threaten us was the Ruskies, when they wouldn't honor their bilateral with us. So we shut off the airspace to them, guess how fast they capitulated. In affect the UAE have showed up to a gunfight with a pocket knife. You can smoosh all the MP's you want, have little models for them, but in the end of the day are PM is an economist by profession and understands whats best for the country, a healthy Air Canada is priority one. The direct job imprint at AC is around 30,000 employee's, double that with related industries. Not to mention airport infrastructure, which is payed for by at least 50% by AC through landing fee's and rental. To put it into context, AC and the jobs it creats has a larger footprint in Canada then the Auto industry, and we as Canadians remember what the federal government did to protect that in the fall of 08. Are federallies are very aware of the Aussie experience and will not go there, smooshing mayors and low level know nothing MP's will get you no where, airports/ports are federal juristiction. As for the Indian sub continent, once the 787 starts coming in late 12 or early 13 the plan is to go back to Delhi, Mumbai, and Bangalor, with the right size aircraft with the ability to do it with comfort and ease.
Emrates has s#it to offer, that's why they have lowered themselves to threats, the next thing you will see is are citizens in the UAE being throw in jail for trumped BS charges this is how they work in that part of the world
BUS340 is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2010, 12:19
  #46 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UAE
Posts: 165
Left coaster.
I have just as much knowledge as you do. You would not be where you are now if the Canadian Government hadn't been protecting Air Canada all these years. It is a S%^t Airline providing a S#$t product at an overpriced rate. Yes, it would be unfortunate for all the jobs lost. But, how many jobs have you and thousands of others lost because of them???????
Togalk is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2010, 20:23
  #47 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Airplane
Posts: 133
The Canadian Government should give EK all the slots it wants, but only on the condition that all staff required to operate the flights be Canadian and be based in Canada paying Canadian taxes. Also huge amounts of money should be spent on a cadet program for pilots and an apprentice program for engineers.

airbus757 is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2010, 15:16
  #48 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Trinidad
Posts: 25
EK is only one of AC's fears

Looks like Ac has more to fear than EK
WestJet?s plan to crush Air Canada - Business - Macleans.ca

dadster is offline  

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