The dumbing down of our profession
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The dumbing down of our profession
It saddens me to see young cadets that just a year ago held one stripe, they got a rating and bingo two stripes, they fly the aeroplane for five minutes and hey presto they have three stripes. Jesus H Christ, when I became an aviator I had to bust my ass to gain any fuc
ing stripes, they were not just handed out you had to earn them. With BA you became a commander in waiting,even low cost operators in Europe don't make it easy. I congradulated one young lad in the crew room and I said he would be after the fourth stripe next his reply "inshalla". My current regime is under the GCAA, it won't suprise me to see these local hot shots in the left seat in a years time, some dispensation is bound to be granted so that with say 1500hrs they can have the fourth stripe!
Not being funny or bitter but what happened to a thing called 'experience', is our job so ****
ing easy a guy who can barely shave or wipe his arse can do it. No wonder we get treated like crap and the money is getting worse and worse.
ing stripes, they were not just handed out you had to earn them. With BA you became a commander in waiting,even low cost operators in Europe don't make it easy. I congradulated one young lad in the crew room and I said he would be after the fourth stripe next his reply "inshalla". My current regime is under the GCAA, it won't suprise me to see these local hot shots in the left seat in a years time, some dispensation is bound to be granted so that with say 1500hrs they can have the fourth stripe!Not being funny or bitter but what happened to a thing called 'experience', is our job so ****
ing easy a guy who can barely shave or wipe his arse can do it. No wonder we get treated like crap and the money is getting worse and worse.
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The entire stripe thing, IMHO, is silly. If a guy is in the right seat, give him 3 bars. If he is in the left seat, give him 4. Pilots otherwise get confused as cabin crew, bus drivers, hotel bell boys or sky caps with one or two bars by the general public who may not be familiar with the British system.
That or start giving Captains 4 bars, 5 bars, bars with stars, moons, diamonds, hearts, clubs, spades, horseshoes or clovers . . . or big fat "Peruvian Admiral" bars depending on their status as "Captain", "Senior Captain", "Fleet Captain", etc.
(He's our airline's A380 Fleet Chief Pilot)
That or start giving Captains 4 bars, 5 bars, bars with stars, moons, diamonds, hearts, clubs, spades, horseshoes or clovers . . . or big fat "Peruvian Admiral" bars depending on their status as "Captain", "Senior Captain", "Fleet Captain", etc.
(He's our airline's A380 Fleet Chief Pilot)
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you are just proving my point, any one will fly and experience and intelligence be damned, and by the way its not just the British system. This is why pilots are not professionals on the socio-ethnic scale. Unlike Doctors, Lawers and other true professionals.
Idi Amin is in quite poor taste.
Idi Amin is in quite poor taste.
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And to say that when they have 1500hrs they can have the fourth stripe is not a joke, it has happened before to nationalize an airline, but in this case it didn't work...
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PtP
If pilots would make half of the serious mistakes that doctors make the story would be very different.
Research has revealed that the average IQ of pilots used to be 130. Reference "Human Factors in Aviation"
There is no public reporting on the number of lives screwed up by doctors. The trust we have in them is unjustified.
Medical Terrorism and there is much more.
Doctors do not accept any critic, generally speaking this attitude does not belong in a cockpit and are unfit to hold a pilot license.
If pilots would make half of the serious mistakes that doctors make the story would be very different.
Research has revealed that the average IQ of pilots used to be 130. Reference "Human Factors in Aviation"
There is no public reporting on the number of lives screwed up by doctors. The trust we have in them is unjustified.
Medical Terrorism and there is much more.
Doctors do not accept any critic, generally speaking this attitude does not belong in a cockpit and are unfit to hold a pilot license.
Last edited by Pitch Up Authority; 24th Jan 2010 at 00:13.
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There is such a thing as "consequence of error". That means if a doctor screw's up, one person dies, HR screws up, i don't get me dental bill paid, a F/A screws up, i get the chicken instead of beef, I screw up, 300 people die! That's why we are compensated more, and also why management HATE us. Besides Engineers, ours is the only job they cant just throw someone into with a couple weeks training. And, that's why they will ALWAYS hate us.
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The entire stripe thing, IMHO, is silly. If a guy is in the right seat, give him 3 bars. If he is in the left seat, give him 4. Pilots otherwise get confused as cabin crew, bus drivers, hotel bell boys or sky caps with one or two bars by the general public who may not be familiar with the British system.
That or start giving Captains 4 bars, 5 bars, bars with stars, moons, diamonds, hearts, clubs, spades, horseshoes or clovers . . . or big fat "Peruvian Admiral" bars depending on their status as "Captain", "Senior Captain", "Fleet Captain", etc.
(He's our airline's A380 Fleet Chief Pilot)
I was waiting at the old Helmsley Hotel on 42nd St., standing by for the crew bus out to Kennedy. A lady: 'Boy, would you take my bags, please?' Well, I had 4 stripes, and wings, and said "Of course, madame". Since I was the first to show, and we had 22 crew, I had plenty of time. Took the bags for her, to the front desk, and then to the room...refused the tip, which I think disconcerted her. I wonder if Amin ever had that experience at his hotel in Jeddah. I think Captains should have 7 stripes, and F/O's 9. Sam
That or start giving Captains 4 bars, 5 bars, bars with stars, moons, diamonds, hearts, clubs, spades, horseshoes or clovers . . . or big fat "Peruvian Admiral" bars depending on their status as "Captain", "Senior Captain", "Fleet Captain", etc.
(He's our airline's A380 Fleet Chief Pilot)
I was waiting at the old Helmsley Hotel on 42nd St., standing by for the crew bus out to Kennedy. A lady: 'Boy, would you take my bags, please?' Well, I had 4 stripes, and wings, and said "Of course, madame". Since I was the first to show, and we had 22 crew, I had plenty of time. Took the bags for her, to the front desk, and then to the room...refused the tip, which I think disconcerted her. I wonder if Amin ever had that experience at his hotel in Jeddah. I think Captains should have 7 stripes, and F/O's 9. Sam
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I agree out here, eberyone likes to wear thier bars, even the kitchen boy.
From having to do with the training of the local EY cadets, they think its great to have bars.
IQ, CRM. MCC. these are lovely words that hold such demand out here.
All you have to do is ask these guys a simple met or nav cpl question and they will not know, that if they have icao level 4 english.....
you get an extra bar if you get level 5 out here.
Out here both ey and ek the young cadets are fitted with what I call a 24hr circuit breaker, every morning it resets.....
Oh ! if you can retain information to the 25th hour, there's another bar in it for you.
fluffy
From having to do with the training of the local EY cadets, they think its great to have bars.
IQ, CRM. MCC. these are lovely words that hold such demand out here.
All you have to do is ask these guys a simple met or nav cpl question and they will not know, that if they have icao level 4 english.....
you get an extra bar if you get level 5 out here.
Out here both ey and ek the young cadets are fitted with what I call a 24hr circuit breaker, every morning it resets.....
Oh ! if you can retain information to the 25th hour, there's another bar in it for you.
fluffy
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Everybody and his dog have four stripes at the airport in Abu Dhabi. Pretty soon the baggage porters will have them. Then the cadets will really be confused. Baggage porters,cadets, they all look the same. At least the baggage porters serve a purpose
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Research has revealed that the average IQ of pilots used to be 130. Reference "Human Factors in Aviation"
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PtP, doctors and lawyers are also licensed professionals. Licensing is how governing bodies determine who is competent to practice. The difference is that pilots' licenses are under scrutiny every 6 months where most professions only require continuing education to keep their qualifications.
As far as dumbing down, I'll agree although I don't know when it started. First, and not to brag only inform, I am a mensa member and I am a piot. My best is also a mensa member and a pilot. We have discussed this several times and were both initially disappointed when we began our flying careers. I don't know what I expected but I assumed (incorrectly) that at the airline level I would find individuals in the upper percentiles of intelligence. While that is somewhat true, there's still a large bell curve.
Saywhat mentioned the lack of stimulus in the job and that is definitely true but I don't think that only applies to intelligent people. I think long haul flying would be boring for anyone. At this level, it isn't the job but rather the lifestyle that is appealing. The time off affords you the opportunity to explore other interests like sports, music, languages, or other skills that require more time to learn that a 9 to 5 job would allow. Plus, you get to see the world and get paid to do it.
Regardless of the airline, management will try to screw us and succeed at almost every opportunity where I work. I'm pi$$ed off and frustrated like everyone else here, but I would still rather do this than sit in a cubicle even if it means dealing with a few idiots on the line and in the office.
As far as dumbing down, I'll agree although I don't know when it started. First, and not to brag only inform, I am a mensa member and I am a piot. My best is also a mensa member and a pilot. We have discussed this several times and were both initially disappointed when we began our flying careers. I don't know what I expected but I assumed (incorrectly) that at the airline level I would find individuals in the upper percentiles of intelligence. While that is somewhat true, there's still a large bell curve.
Saywhat mentioned the lack of stimulus in the job and that is definitely true but I don't think that only applies to intelligent people. I think long haul flying would be boring for anyone. At this level, it isn't the job but rather the lifestyle that is appealing. The time off affords you the opportunity to explore other interests like sports, music, languages, or other skills that require more time to learn that a 9 to 5 job would allow. Plus, you get to see the world and get paid to do it.
Regardless of the airline, management will try to screw us and succeed at almost every opportunity where I work. I'm pi$$ed off and frustrated like everyone else here, but I would still rather do this than sit in a cubicle even if it means dealing with a few idiots on the line and in the office.
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Idi Amin is in quite poor taste.
Remember, the idea is to be impressed by the wings and gold braid, right?
I must admit though that I was quite impressed by watching Etihad pilots cruising the grounds of last-year's Dubai Airshow, resplendent in their uniforms, single-bar on the sleeve, jacket (even though it was hot outside), peak cap, Rayban glasses and peachfuzz moustaches. Why they were not allowed to dress as normal people (civilian) reflects poorly on their employer, IMHO.
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The Inexperience Sunami will soon hit an airline near you. Maybe the one you're presently working for. Maybe not. One thing's for sure and certain. The number of stripes, their colour and who wears them will be meaningless. Get used to low time in the RHS with lower hours and class of licence. Focus on YOUR survival and plan to deal with it when it gets here.
Working in the M.E., I'm surprised you haven't learnt the cultural pecking order by now. Believe me, inshallah has very little to do with your greatest fear when it comes to who ends up in the fasttrack. Right? More to do with a refined sense of entitlement methinks.
Not news. Just reality.
Working in the M.E., I'm surprised you haven't learnt the cultural pecking order by now. Believe me, inshallah has very little to do with your greatest fear when it comes to who ends up in the fasttrack. Right? More to do with a refined sense of entitlement methinks.
Not news. Just reality.
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I think long haul flying would be boring for anyone
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GOD save us!!!! guys we depend our lives on you....we mean the cabin crew (lolz)....and it worries me to see the peeps who were in high school just over a year or so back is now having those so called 3 stripes!!! hmmm more reasons to hate the 320s these days
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Wiley, that is my point. However, it doesn't seem like considerable work to make a flight safe and boring. Obviously we aren't out there flying aerobatics, but my point is that it doesn't matter how smart someone is, it's just boring flying to Australia not talking to anyone (cpdlc) and doing fuel checks every half hour.
Flying today is far from rocket science and the level of automation allows for less skilled and intellectually adept pilots. So then what do you get? Captains with lots of responsibility who lack the intellect and social skills to manage a modern aircraft and large crew. You get guys who are more concerned with company policy than flight safety. You get followers and not leaders. Most captains are not the great men of aviation's past. There are a few, and I love flying with those guys, but they are more the exception than the rule.
p.s. before I get the predicted response from someone, I was a captain for 8 years at my previous airline.
Flying today is far from rocket science and the level of automation allows for less skilled and intellectually adept pilots. So then what do you get? Captains with lots of responsibility who lack the intellect and social skills to manage a modern aircraft and large crew. You get guys who are more concerned with company policy than flight safety. You get followers and not leaders. Most captains are not the great men of aviation's past. There are a few, and I love flying with those guys, but they are more the exception than the rule.
p.s. before I get the predicted response from someone, I was a captain for 8 years at my previous airline.
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So do they, its called a diploma and is issued by a University. My Father has one, my brother also, as to lawers they are also licensed to practice law once again issued by a university and supported by the state or country that they practice.That is the signifigant difference. With Doctors it takes years of gaining experience before they become consultants or specialists. Unlike the way our industry is becoming.