Ek Runners (absconders - not the Nike guys)
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Great thing about this forum is that 411A has been on my 'ignore list' for years and I no longer get wound up by his irrelevant crap...so nice to see he's posted but don't have to respond...
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
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Granted a pilot that shows or reports to work tipsy or drunk is a fool to put it mildly. What most of us a Ek are trying to convay is in the civilized world we look out for each other. When the local captain sidled up next to the drinking FO at the bar the captain should have said you need to call in sick now, not at report time and he could check that the FO did indeed call in sick.
The captain ordered sparkling water and said it was champange and pretended to drink with the FO and get all in the info about the FOs flight. Then called the company. A totally behind the back underhanded approach that people from this part of the world are so good at.
I can't understand the 3rd world mentality where you screw your neighbor without reservations, and I probably never will understand this mentality no matter how long I live in the sand box. We all work for the slave masters so let's look out for each other and help a pilot out when we can.
The captain ordered sparkling water and said it was champange and pretended to drink with the FO and get all in the info about the FOs flight. Then called the company. A totally behind the back underhanded approach that people from this part of the world are so good at.
I can't understand the 3rd world mentality where you screw your neighbor without reservations, and I probably never will understand this mentality no matter how long I live in the sand box. We all work for the slave masters so let's look out for each other and help a pilot out when we can.
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Originally Posted by 411A
That p#&$k local captain in SIN that did the drinking Canadian FO in should be given the treatment
Do you all of a sudden condone drinking pilots at one airline, but not the other?
Reporting sick down route means you have to ring SOS. They in-turn send a physician to visit you, and will undertake a diagnosis of your ailment and report back to SOS who then tell FDM what's wrong.
halas
halas
Join Date: Aug 2005
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You guys realize that the canadian F/O was breathalyzed in Sin and when tested an hour before duty blew less than half the limit? That fact was conveniently ignored by EK during the whole proceedings though and not told at the pilot meetings....
Join Date: Jan 1999
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Allegedly the F/O had already been removed from his rostered flight quite a while before he was even breathalysed; in addition the replacement F/O had been contacted by the company to ascertain his fitness to operate the flight instead. No preconceived ideas then.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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The story is, he'd been shunned earlier on. His motivation was not what you think in your dreamworld.
Repeat, he was a fool....and got caught.
Makes no difference who turned him in.
Take chances, get caught...usually a bad result.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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411 ---your the fool!!!! The 'assumption' was that he was drinking (in both cases). Unless a test is performed it all heresay. PERIOD!
Thread creep guys - if you want to discuss the SIN incident open a new thread.
IE: DO you condone drinking adullt beverages prior to duty OK...or not, in conformity with laid down regulations?
Yes, or no?
NB.
You're...not ---your.
Numpty.
Join Date: Apr 1999
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411-----I don't think anyone condones drinking prior to duty. But in this case all we have is a story (incomplete at that) that claims a captain offloaded an FO for being 'drunk'. Drunk is a legal definition and there is no way in hell that he knew whether or not the FO was drunk.
Now, if the claim is that he smelled alcohol or had other reason to believe he has been drinking then so be it - the claim is then proven by a blood test. Until it is then it is all heresay.
My only issue is with the immediate conclusions/accusations that are made. But I agree--if proven to be drunk then he deserves what he gets - just call in sick.
Now, if the claim is that he smelled alcohol or had other reason to believe he has been drinking then so be it - the claim is then proven by a blood test. Until it is then it is all heresay.
My only issue is with the immediate conclusions/accusations that are made. But I agree--if proven to be drunk then he deserves what he gets - just call in sick.
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With apologies to 4HolerPoler, a further comment.
Some time ago I spoke to the flight attendant who was sitting beside the F/O at the bar in SIN. According to her they stopped drinking more than 13 hours before sign on. However, he was drinking a rather heavy brewed beer (don't know what). She was sitting beside him because she is best friends with the F/O's fiance & knew him very well.
The captain in question had spent the evening badgering her & a number of other F/A's for their 'company', shall we say. She said that he appeared rather miffed that she was laughing & talking to the F/O in question & wouldn't accept his advances.
Overnight, after the call from the captain, the company booked a room & employed security & medical staff for the following morning. When the crew presented themselves for pickup, the F/O, the F/A I spoke to & another F/A were sent to this room for breath testing. There were no blood tests done. She & the other F/A passed the breath tests, but the F/O failed. This was over an hour before sign on. The F/O was tested again 30 mins before sign on & was OK, & again at sign on time & was once again OK.
Evidently, the manufacturer of the breath test equipment stated that there is no way someone can be over as far as he supposedly was & then be under 30 mins later. They believe that the equipment was either faulty or was 'spiked'.
From conversations I have had with others it appears that EK management will take the line of the person who makes the first report & it will take more than a bulldozer to change their minds - more so if it is a local who makes that first report. I have also spoken to other pilots who have been called into the office with no explaination & then been asked to explain what happened on a flight a few weeeks before. Then they are accused of lying & withholding information because their story does not match the report that management have recieved. I have seen this in other airlines over the years, but not as bad as at EK & not where the outcome is losing your job.
Be careful out there!
Some time ago I spoke to the flight attendant who was sitting beside the F/O at the bar in SIN. According to her they stopped drinking more than 13 hours before sign on. However, he was drinking a rather heavy brewed beer (don't know what). She was sitting beside him because she is best friends with the F/O's fiance & knew him very well.
The captain in question had spent the evening badgering her & a number of other F/A's for their 'company', shall we say. She said that he appeared rather miffed that she was laughing & talking to the F/O in question & wouldn't accept his advances.
Overnight, after the call from the captain, the company booked a room & employed security & medical staff for the following morning. When the crew presented themselves for pickup, the F/O, the F/A I spoke to & another F/A were sent to this room for breath testing. There were no blood tests done. She & the other F/A passed the breath tests, but the F/O failed. This was over an hour before sign on. The F/O was tested again 30 mins before sign on & was OK, & again at sign on time & was once again OK.
Evidently, the manufacturer of the breath test equipment stated that there is no way someone can be over as far as he supposedly was & then be under 30 mins later. They believe that the equipment was either faulty or was 'spiked'.
From conversations I have had with others it appears that EK management will take the line of the person who makes the first report & it will take more than a bulldozer to change their minds - more so if it is a local who makes that first report. I have also spoken to other pilots who have been called into the office with no explaination & then been asked to explain what happened on a flight a few weeeks before. Then they are accused of lying & withholding information because their story does not match the report that management have recieved. I have seen this in other airlines over the years, but not as bad as at EK & not where the outcome is losing your job.
Be careful out there!
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Actually Habibis, the rules are that you are "In Uniform" and are a representative of the company, and if you blow positive, you are deemed to have failed the test. Not my rules, just the way it is in EK. Sign on in the civilised world applies, not at EK. As to whether the equipment is faulty, there is no right to confirm that the equipment was or has been checked for accuracy, not in the EK's mind.
As for the Captain that grassed the F/O, well most who have been here more than 5 minutes, know his ever so slightly tarnished reputation. Nearly lost his job for some fraud a few years back.... Must be looking for brownie points
Back to subject now mods.
SyB
As for the Captain that grassed the F/O, well most who have been here more than 5 minutes, know his ever so slightly tarnished reputation. Nearly lost his job for some fraud a few years back.... Must be looking for brownie points
Back to subject now mods.
SyB
Join Date: Apr 1999
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taking over----knowing the FO I can confirm your story (you beat me too it). The trick in this situation, should it ever arise, is to immediately ask for a blood test as it is the ONLY conclusive method for proving your innocence. In most countries this would be a given (ie. UK with the AC pilot).
Join Date: Sep 2005
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May I add my contribution to the SIN stint.
The captain who reported the FO is a local and one of the *s**oles in the company. Initials are K. middle name like our dear old friend from the series married with children. Lastname first letter as the most popular car made by the number 1 selling german car manufacturer in Wolfsburg...
His favorite layover is BKK...famous for easy p**ss**s.....
I can confirm the story above and I still feel sorry for the FO.
The point is he was NOT drinking 12 hours before duty. He accepted a breath test before the start of his duty. NEVER EVER DO THAT.
He should never have accepted his resignation and taken a lawyer in his home country.
The captain who reported the FO is a local and one of the *s**oles in the company. Initials are K. middle name like our dear old friend from the series married with children. Lastname first letter as the most popular car made by the number 1 selling german car manufacturer in Wolfsburg...
His favorite layover is BKK...famous for easy p**ss**s.....
I can confirm the story above and I still feel sorry for the FO.
The point is he was NOT drinking 12 hours before duty. He accepted a breath test before the start of his duty. NEVER EVER DO THAT.
He should never have accepted his resignation and taken a lawyer in his home country.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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The company policy is "you may not drink alcohol 12 hours before a flight".
GCAA limit is 0.02% 8 hours before a flight.
So you have 4 hours to get sober..
Cant be done!
Your teenager crew does know this. Dont fall in this trap.
Make it easy... DONT drink on 24 hour layovers.
Take up knitting or whatever.
Be safe....
GCAA limit is 0.02% 8 hours before a flight.
So you have 4 hours to get sober..
Cant be done!
Your teenager crew does know this. Dont fall in this trap.
Make it easy... DONT drink on 24 hour layovers.
Take up knitting or whatever.
Be safe....
Join Date: Aug 2003
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That's ridiculous, I need a couple drinks to unwind and relax. Worked for the last 20 years, not changing a thing. EK will NOT change this part of my life. Don't be scared into a dark corner payscale, everything in reasonable moderation.