Ek Pay Scale
short flights long nights
if you cant find it yourself on the website..you are doomed here,,,,,
Last edited by SOPS; 5th Jan 2010 at 03:58. Reason: typo
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777 boy,
Other than DEWA what part of the contract have theynot honoured, as well. what part of website ?
Have a look at your contarct before you respond I think you will be surprised or you dont even work for EK.
PS , By no means am I defending the company, but people needs the facts before coming here
Other than DEWA what part of the contract have theynot honoured, as well. what part of website ?
Have a look at your contarct before you respond I think you will be surprised or you dont even work for EK.
PS , By no means am I defending the company, but people needs the facts before coming here
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No changes for you Fatbus ?
Do you work for EK ?
Lets talk about money, this is the thread.
For 90 hours how much do you get now comparing to before the "unilateral contract amendment" ?
You should find arround 17 % less, than you have to say a word about the yearly + 3 % that we didn't get, than you have to say a word about the unpaied bonus despit profits made according to official statements. Profit that will go strait to Abu Dhabi now (official) and will never be shared again (in the contract also, no ?)
Now on top of that and to be very clear with new joiners or wanabees, a average of 5 to 9 % increase of living cost here. And I'm not talking about the 30 % increase on the small popcorn box at the Mercato Cinema (from 10 to 13 AED).
Arround 20 % less is the reality, not talking about Forex aspect cause it could be more and it is not EK fault.
This is it Mr Fatbus.
Do you work for EK ?
Lets talk about money, this is the thread.
For 90 hours how much do you get now comparing to before the "unilateral contract amendment" ?
You should find arround 17 % less, than you have to say a word about the yearly + 3 % that we didn't get, than you have to say a word about the unpaied bonus despit profits made according to official statements. Profit that will go strait to Abu Dhabi now (official) and will never be shared again (in the contract also, no ?)
Now on top of that and to be very clear with new joiners or wanabees, a average of 5 to 9 % increase of living cost here. And I'm not talking about the 30 % increase on the small popcorn box at the Mercato Cinema (from 10 to 13 AED).
Arround 20 % less is the reality, not talking about Forex aspect cause it could be more and it is not EK fault.
This is it Mr Fatbus.
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Volverine,
Like I said I'm not defending the company.
Where in your contract is there ref to hours, please think before you respond.
We do not get a bonus we get profit share, the 2 are very different and you can read the rules on groupworld.
The 3% is not a given.
Can't recall anything in the contract about cost of living adjustments.
You might want to have a read of thr employee handbook before you comment and
please read the first line of this post
Like I said I'm not defending the company.
Where in your contract is there ref to hours, please think before you respond.
We do not get a bonus we get profit share, the 2 are very different and you can read the rules on groupworld.
The 3% is not a given.
Can't recall anything in the contract about cost of living adjustments.
You might want to have a read of thr employee handbook before you comment and
please read the first line of this post
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Contract versus Terms and Conditions
Not that I am a lawyer by any means but there is a legal difference between a contract of employment ( which I signed over ten years ago and cant remember exactly what was in it) and 'terms and conditions'
For example, we were (mostly ) employed as first officers etc in our employment contract ...no mention about command etc etc.
So it could be said that on upgrad, one has now signed a new contract of employment for example... and I dont remember the 3% being in that one ( not that I actually signed a new one I think??).
As far as the pay, hours flow for overtime, sick/leave credits, gound duties,the 3% ( that one might be debatable as I always thought it was in the actual 'contract') upgrade etc... these form part of our terms and conditions.
The employee handbook , could by any reasonable man be seen as conditions of the contract and hence imported into the explicit terms of the agreement. And I am sure that the employee handbook has the 'we can change anything we like' clause.
This generally means that the T+Cs can be changed by the company management as needed for effective business operations etc.
HOWEVER... in the real world any unilateral change of these imported T+Cs into the contract.. such as the ability to vary them .... would normally mean only if it were to improve the conditions. ..not deteriorate them.
BUT.... as we ( who might have Mashreq mortgages for example) have just found out.. the legallity of any unilateral change here by any entity is entirely whimsical and contracts are difficult to challenge in reality.
So.. back to the thread... as an FO here it is not easy to make a crust if you have a family with too many kids... but that is just my opinion...
the job itself is great once you get out of DXB..! Too bad we cant get basings and do it
WJA
For example, we were (mostly ) employed as first officers etc in our employment contract ...no mention about command etc etc.
So it could be said that on upgrad, one has now signed a new contract of employment for example... and I dont remember the 3% being in that one ( not that I actually signed a new one I think??).
As far as the pay, hours flow for overtime, sick/leave credits, gound duties,the 3% ( that one might be debatable as I always thought it was in the actual 'contract') upgrade etc... these form part of our terms and conditions.
The employee handbook , could by any reasonable man be seen as conditions of the contract and hence imported into the explicit terms of the agreement. And I am sure that the employee handbook has the 'we can change anything we like' clause.
This generally means that the T+Cs can be changed by the company management as needed for effective business operations etc.
HOWEVER... in the real world any unilateral change of these imported T+Cs into the contract.. such as the ability to vary them .... would normally mean only if it were to improve the conditions. ..not deteriorate them.
BUT.... as we ( who might have Mashreq mortgages for example) have just found out.. the legallity of any unilateral change here by any entity is entirely whimsical and contracts are difficult to challenge in reality.
So.. back to the thread... as an FO here it is not easy to make a crust if you have a family with too many kids... but that is just my opinion...
the job itself is great once you get out of DXB..! Too bad we cant get basings and do it
WJA
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Contract is one thing, and what is presented by EK by way of the Careers Website is/was very different. There have been significant changes in the past 18 months.
It also used to advertise utilities??? The trap is that even not contractural as FB has rightly pointed out, everything else should be honored as most people make life changing decisions on what is advertised.
I think everyone can agree that most of the negative changes have not been contractural, but inclusive in the initial advertised package.
It also used to advertise utilities??? The trap is that even not contractural as FB has rightly pointed out, everything else should be honored as most people make life changing decisions on what is advertised.
I think everyone can agree that most of the negative changes have not been contractural, but inclusive in the initial advertised package.
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Hi Fatbus,
Several different areas.
3% payrise for starters
Entiltlement to study leave where EK pay for courses completely removed.
Many more.
Yes, I do work for EK.
Sorry to say the company is being dishonest with so many different kinds of staff.
When they broke the contract (with utilities) they broke the contract.
PERIOD
Several different areas.
3% payrise for starters
Entiltlement to study leave where EK pay for courses completely removed.
Many more.
Yes, I do work for EK.
Sorry to say the company is being dishonest with so many different kinds of staff.
When they broke the contract (with utilities) they broke the contract.
PERIOD
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Back to the thread,
F/O Money in EK ?
Is fine if and only if :
- single
- no kids
- no pet
- no social life (am not talking about getting drunk at the bar with "friends")
- solid liver (because of the previous one)
- no hobby
- no sports (except going to the gym...at the hotel)
- not fat because of the BMI limit
- no care about upgrade delay (you should also erase this word from your brain and never ask for it)
- no care about contract consistency
- like to wear a hat all the time
- boddy clock flexibility (flying from far West to far East in short term)
- no care about days OFF (minimum is 8, and yes it is true)
- no care about week-ends
- no care about being reported by cabin crew or captain for silly things (also valid for captains reported by F/O's)
- no care about being called on day OFF (you will be blamed by managment if not responding positively. OFFICIAL)
- no care about a bidding system giving you what you "want" ones every 5 months only ( yes, 5 groups ) so about twice a year only because of the yearly reserve month and a month leave.
If and only if all of above, the F/O's conditions are good in EK.
F/O Money in EK ?
Is fine if and only if :
- single
- no kids
- no pet
- no social life (am not talking about getting drunk at the bar with "friends")
- solid liver (because of the previous one)
- no hobby
- no sports (except going to the gym...at the hotel)
- not fat because of the BMI limit
- no care about upgrade delay (you should also erase this word from your brain and never ask for it)
- no care about contract consistency
- like to wear a hat all the time
- boddy clock flexibility (flying from far West to far East in short term)
- no care about days OFF (minimum is 8, and yes it is true)
- no care about week-ends
- no care about being reported by cabin crew or captain for silly things (also valid for captains reported by F/O's)
- no care about being called on day OFF (you will be blamed by managment if not responding positively. OFFICIAL)
- no care about a bidding system giving you what you "want" ones every 5 months only ( yes, 5 groups ) so about twice a year only because of the yearly reserve month and a month leave.
If and only if all of above, the F/O's conditions are good in EK.
And Volverine all those facts were true when you decided to join. Can I ask how it is crap now but was ok back then?
I also find it a bit interesting that 777 FOs are now crying foul of the EK upgrade scam, when they were quite willing to sit back and watch their Airbus mates suffer from this since 2003. Talk of que jumping and the like now, but they were quite willing to be upgraded when a more senior Bus FO was being left behind. But thats different right?
To blame EK or Dubai for not having a social life is a bit rich. I think a deeper look at yourself may answer that one.
EK is just another job. There is no union protection, no being consulted about your pay or conditions, no recourse about rostering issues. To the company you are a staff number that will work to the legal maximum. Thats all. I would think it would be very difficult to save money if you are on a FO salary with a wife and kid. And you really need to consider this before joining, as your time as an FO will be quite long (139 aeroplanes now, 168 aeroplanes by 2015 is the last I heard quoted, this could be well out of date though and should be researched before making any joining decision).
In real terms, an FO joining now makes less $OZ per month now than I did when I joined in the early 2000s ($OZ 8710 per month back then, $OZ 6440 now, can someone update this number? based on base salary). This will also be true for Euro and Pound earners as well i would think. This is because of exchange rate changes, not blaming the company for that, but stating a fact, that there is a lot less bang for ya buck here now.
So if you want to join, please do some research, as it really is a pain in the arse to sit beside someone who whines about how he is so hard done by, when really nothing has changed since he signed the flimsy bit paper that EK calls a contract.
The Don.
PS. Just saw the no hobby bit quoted in the post above. Almost spat coffee all over the computer reading that!!!! **** thats funny!!!!!
I also find it a bit interesting that 777 FOs are now crying foul of the EK upgrade scam, when they were quite willing to sit back and watch their Airbus mates suffer from this since 2003. Talk of que jumping and the like now, but they were quite willing to be upgraded when a more senior Bus FO was being left behind. But thats different right?
To blame EK or Dubai for not having a social life is a bit rich. I think a deeper look at yourself may answer that one.
EK is just another job. There is no union protection, no being consulted about your pay or conditions, no recourse about rostering issues. To the company you are a staff number that will work to the legal maximum. Thats all. I would think it would be very difficult to save money if you are on a FO salary with a wife and kid. And you really need to consider this before joining, as your time as an FO will be quite long (139 aeroplanes now, 168 aeroplanes by 2015 is the last I heard quoted, this could be well out of date though and should be researched before making any joining decision).
In real terms, an FO joining now makes less $OZ per month now than I did when I joined in the early 2000s ($OZ 8710 per month back then, $OZ 6440 now, can someone update this number? based on base salary). This will also be true for Euro and Pound earners as well i would think. This is because of exchange rate changes, not blaming the company for that, but stating a fact, that there is a lot less bang for ya buck here now.
So if you want to join, please do some research, as it really is a pain in the arse to sit beside someone who whines about how he is so hard done by, when really nothing has changed since he signed the flimsy bit paper that EK calls a contract.
The Don.
PS. Just saw the no hobby bit quoted in the post above. Almost spat coffee all over the computer reading that!!!! **** thats funny!!!!!
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I'm glad to make you laugh Youpezmeoff.
First, no no no it was not such a crap when I joined more than 4 years ago. Money wise, roster wise, upgrade rate and rules wise.
Second I never expected to become captain before my seniors, neither after my juniors... But this is the case today so I'm very sorry to complain about it and spoil your day by saying so captain.
Like it or leave it you will say ? Yes very true, just waiting for an opportunitie man.
First, no no no it was not such a crap when I joined more than 4 years ago. Money wise, roster wise, upgrade rate and rules wise.
Second I never expected to become captain before my seniors, neither after my juniors... But this is the case today so I'm very sorry to complain about it and spoil your day by saying so captain.
Like it or leave it you will say ? Yes very true, just waiting for an opportunitie man.
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living the dream
BB Dubai is pretty close i would agree that an FO would need to be on mid 40s per month to have the same life style and buying power as 10-12 years ago. This would be the minimum salary also required to save money and have any sort of life style in Dubai if you have a family.
Add onto that
DEWA (electricity and water no longer paid in full - yet to come)
SALIK (road tolls)
MORE TRAFFIC FINES (never had any in previous years now many)
RIP OFF INTERNET MOBILE BB AND I PHONE SERVICES
NO OVERTIME
NO CREDIT FOR LEAVE (3.5HRS PER DAY BEFORE
STOLEN LEAVE (4 DAY FORCED LEAVE ASSIGNMENTS)
NO ALLOWANCES AT ALL (LAGOS, MAUITIUS)
**** ALLOWANCES IN OTHER PLACES (35USD FOR 24 HOURS IN MANY PLACES)
PAY ON BLOCKTIME ONLY (GREATER OF BLOCK OR ACTUAL BEFORE)
CHEATING ON BLOCK TIMES (REDUCING OUR BLOCK PAY AND OVERTIME)
FINES FOR MISSING APPOINTMENTS AT CLINIC
NO 3 perc INCREMENT
NO BONUS
I could go on. bottom line is as an FO you will hardly see your family flying 90-95hrs per month, and when you do you'll be completely zombified, and irritable. And you will go backwards financially. Kids of EK pilots when asked to draw their family have drawn their fathers sleeping in bed. YOU'LL HARDLY BE HOME
At least the 14 out of a course of 16 who DIDN'T bother to turn up for a recent course obviously saw it for what it is - MODERN SLAVERY.
ENJOY LIVING THE DREAM
Add onto that
DEWA (electricity and water no longer paid in full - yet to come)
SALIK (road tolls)
MORE TRAFFIC FINES (never had any in previous years now many)
RIP OFF INTERNET MOBILE BB AND I PHONE SERVICES
NO OVERTIME
NO CREDIT FOR LEAVE (3.5HRS PER DAY BEFORE
STOLEN LEAVE (4 DAY FORCED LEAVE ASSIGNMENTS)
NO ALLOWANCES AT ALL (LAGOS, MAUITIUS)
**** ALLOWANCES IN OTHER PLACES (35USD FOR 24 HOURS IN MANY PLACES)
PAY ON BLOCKTIME ONLY (GREATER OF BLOCK OR ACTUAL BEFORE)
CHEATING ON BLOCK TIMES (REDUCING OUR BLOCK PAY AND OVERTIME)
FINES FOR MISSING APPOINTMENTS AT CLINIC
NO 3 perc INCREMENT
NO BONUS
I could go on. bottom line is as an FO you will hardly see your family flying 90-95hrs per month, and when you do you'll be completely zombified, and irritable. And you will go backwards financially. Kids of EK pilots when asked to draw their family have drawn their fathers sleeping in bed. YOU'LL HARDLY BE HOME
At least the 14 out of a course of 16 who DIDN'T bother to turn up for a recent course obviously saw it for what it is - MODERN SLAVERY.
ENJOY LIVING THE DREAM
Last edited by allaru; 7th Jan 2010 at 13:22.