EK Hiring
Join Date: May 2009
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Sir Donald, we aren't referring to a sales pitch and promises, we are referring to contractual provisions which can be relied upon in every other part of the civilized world. Please do not insult these guys by acting like they were duped by a sly management team. They signed contracts with the understanding that the provisions would be followed and honored. How could a visit to the sandbox prevent or forecast the subsequent, egregious breaches that have occurred? Perhaps that level of dishonesty and blatant disregard for contracts is normal where you come from but in most first world nations contracts are honored or there is legal recourse to recoup damages if a contract is broken. IMHO the lack of any real contract law in that part of the world will be their downfall. Sure, laws do exist but we all know that some people are not subject to such petty things.
Join Date: Apr 1999
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The truely telling thing on this whole issue is that only 6 years ago, it was the EK pilots who were defending the company against attack on this site.
The rot started when TCK arrived and started ripping the guts out of conditions of the Trainers. Now AAR has taken the lead in stealing away conditons throughout flight operations (and I assume engineering) to the extent many are looking for other options.
It takes a lot a c..p to fall to break the inertia of simply staying in the job you hold, but I believe critical mass is close for many EK drivers.
0.1% of the EK pilots on this site that are dissatisfied? I don't think so!
Just my opinion for what it's worth....
The rot started when TCK arrived and started ripping the guts out of conditions of the Trainers. Now AAR has taken the lead in stealing away conditons throughout flight operations (and I assume engineering) to the extent many are looking for other options.
It takes a lot a c..p to fall to break the inertia of simply staying in the job you hold, but I believe critical mass is close for many EK drivers.
0.1% of the EK pilots on this site that are dissatisfied? I don't think so!
Just my opinion for what it's worth....
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Just to give you the view of a soon to be ex-desk jockey:
At the HQ we chat a lot with guys from load controllers to fleet management and believe me, they are almost ALL p
off and shocked by the recent developments.
Off the record they admit the destruction AAR is causing, that includes management pilots!
The lower ranks are staying cause they have no alternative and the higher ones cause they got paid so much. At the moment colleagues with good qualifications are leaving i.e. Doctors and middle management but also lots of FOs, some of them going to less paid jobs just to get out of here.
What you will learn here very fast is that quality of living is much more important than money
I doubt its only 1% of EK who are posting here and I am still waiting to meet a happy EK pilot...btw I met them a year ago...the ones coming from real crappy outfits!
So good luck to the ones still determined to come here...you have been warned!
At the HQ we chat a lot with guys from load controllers to fleet management and believe me, they are almost ALL p
off and shocked by the recent developments.Off the record they admit the destruction AAR is causing, that includes management pilots!
The lower ranks are staying cause they have no alternative and the higher ones cause they got paid so much. At the moment colleagues with good qualifications are leaving i.e. Doctors and middle management but also lots of FOs, some of them going to less paid jobs just to get out of here.
What you will learn here very fast is that quality of living is much more important than money
I doubt its only 1% of EK who are posting here and I am still waiting to meet a happy EK pilot...btw I met them a year ago...the ones coming from real crappy outfits!
So good luck to the ones still determined to come here...you have been warned!
Last edited by Schibulsky; 7th Oct 2009 at 07:52.
6000+ hours, 3000 Jet (EFIS) and 1000+ PIC. Currently commanding a Saab340 in the Bahamas.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Question about flying pay!
Hourly Flying Pay
An Hourly Flying pay is paid on block hours up to a threshold of between 83 to 92 hours.
• Productivity Pay
Productivity Pay is also available for block hours worked above the monthly Hourly Flying Pay threshold of between 83 to 92 hours.
the Above article is quoted emirates career website.
I can understand the meaning.So would someone help me understand the meaning?
If I flew say 78 hours, could I get hourly hourly flying pay?
And how much would that be if I flew 78hours?
Thanks infos!
An Hourly Flying pay is paid on block hours up to a threshold of between 83 to 92 hours.
• Productivity Pay
Productivity Pay is also available for block hours worked above the monthly Hourly Flying Pay threshold of between 83 to 92 hours.
the Above article is quoted emirates career website.
I can understand the meaning.So would someone help me understand the meaning?
If I flew say 78 hours, could I get hourly hourly flying pay?
And how much would that be if I flew 78hours?
Thanks infos!
Join Date: May 2009
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Yossy,
You will receive Hourly Flying Pay for any hours flown. For the 78hr month, foran FO it will be I think 45dhs/hr. Or, 3510dhs. (USD956).
No Productivlty pay for the 78hr month.
92hrs for the 31 day month, down to 83hrs for the 28 day month if you get my drift.
Basically, you will work almost to the maximum before being eligable for Productivity Pay.
Is that what you call an Oxymoron?? or just an EKmoron??
Cheers.
You will receive Hourly Flying Pay for any hours flown. For the 78hr month, foran FO it will be I think 45dhs/hr. Or, 3510dhs. (USD956).
No Productivlty pay for the 78hr month.
92hrs for the 31 day month, down to 83hrs for the 28 day month if you get my drift.
Basically, you will work almost to the maximum before being eligable for Productivity Pay.
Is that what you call an Oxymoron?? or just an EKmoron??
Cheers.
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Thank you
Thank you CAVnotOK!
You gave me a very good explanation!
Now I understand the Ekmoron system.
Flying 83hours in a month sounds very exhausting.
But in EK has no domestic route,and all flgihts are go and back patterns and
many long haul flights.
So seems to be very efficient to earn flight time.
I'm flying average 1.5hours flight around 50-60 hours a month and also
many deadheads which are counted half the flight time as flt time.
50-60hours flt time against duty hours a month around 150 hrs.
Which do you think it is exhausting job?
I guess that depends on fleet you are in though,How's like rosters in EK?
Thanks!
You gave me a very good explanation!
Now I understand the Ekmoron system.
Flying 83hours in a month sounds very exhausting.
But in EK has no domestic route,and all flgihts are go and back patterns and
many long haul flights.
So seems to be very efficient to earn flight time.
I'm flying average 1.5hours flight around 50-60 hours a month and also
many deadheads which are counted half the flight time as flt time.
50-60hours flt time against duty hours a month around 150 hrs.
Which do you think it is exhausting job?
I guess that depends on fleet you are in though,How's like rosters in EK?
Thanks!
Join Date: May 2009
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Yossy,
There are a lot of other factors that must be worked in.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for the past 3 months I have been rostered 90hrs + each month. This duty time begins 1hr before departure, however pre-departure briefing starts 1hr 35mins before departure. Duty ends when the brakes are set, even though you are not generally of the jet for another 20-30mins later.
You will find that a majority of Duties are on the back of the clock, and quite often in some very challenging environments. Classic example. Mumbai turnaround. Get picked up from home at 7:30pm for 9:45pm Dep. Arrive Mumbai around 1am and then 1hr 30 mins on ground. Dep around 2:30am to arrive DXB around 6am. Leave HQ around 7am and home again when ever the traffic allows.
Sounds pretty straight forward, but when you factor in poor ATC, local traffic, badly equipped airport facilities, monsoon, likely holding back in Dubai it becomes a very fatigue ridden duty. Compound the effects by whatever other duty(s) you have had prior, and I think you get my point. I'm not trying to paint a bleak picture, but that is exactly what you can regularly expect with EK.
Bit of food for thought. Happy to stand corrected if anyone has a different view to this kind of pattern.
Cav
There are a lot of other factors that must be worked in.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for the past 3 months I have been rostered 90hrs + each month. This duty time begins 1hr before departure, however pre-departure briefing starts 1hr 35mins before departure. Duty ends when the brakes are set, even though you are not generally of the jet for another 20-30mins later.
You will find that a majority of Duties are on the back of the clock, and quite often in some very challenging environments. Classic example. Mumbai turnaround. Get picked up from home at 7:30pm for 9:45pm Dep. Arrive Mumbai around 1am and then 1hr 30 mins on ground. Dep around 2:30am to arrive DXB around 6am. Leave HQ around 7am and home again when ever the traffic allows.
Sounds pretty straight forward, but when you factor in poor ATC, local traffic, badly equipped airport facilities, monsoon, likely holding back in Dubai it becomes a very fatigue ridden duty. Compound the effects by whatever other duty(s) you have had prior, and I think you get my point. I'm not trying to paint a bleak picture, but that is exactly what you can regularly expect with EK.
Bit of food for thought. Happy to stand corrected if anyone has a different view to this kind of pattern.
Cav
Join Date: Feb 2009
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No thats all very true, I personally have worked flat out for the last six month and not a penny in overtime. Also alot of what you do does not qualify as credit, sims, SEP ect but its all still work (but no money!)
In addition you will have to complete numerous and time consuming on line training courses for the company, this is in your own time and gains no credit.
The flying is not easy to accumulate, sure there are some long haul but its mixed in with alot of crap and the bidding system will not help you much.
you will work to the limit basically each month. Personally I cannot remember an easy month.
If you are comming from a civilized country think very long and hard, you may or may not be aware but you are protected by some fairly good employment laws and rights, here you are not, they can and will do what they like when they like.
In addition you will have to complete numerous and time consuming on line training courses for the company, this is in your own time and gains no credit.
The flying is not easy to accumulate, sure there are some long haul but its mixed in with alot of crap and the bidding system will not help you much.
you will work to the limit basically each month. Personally I cannot remember an easy month.
If you are comming from a civilized country think very long and hard, you may or may not be aware but you are protected by some fairly good employment laws and rights, here you are not, they can and will do what they like when they like.
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Indeed, check the latest tweak to the bidding system compliments of dickhED's latest FCN.
Peternowell, I would bet that a large majority of EK pilots would love to trade positions with you! Myself included.
Coming to EK will help you in one way for sure, realising what you really want to do for a flying job. It was pretty good 5-6 years ago but now its just a stop off to something else. Most guys talk about being home everynight as a dream job, gear down at sundown.....
You will need a strong marriage, fiscal restraint and good exit strategy (i.e. were leaving tonight) to survive here.
Good Luck
Peternowell, I would bet that a large majority of EK pilots would love to trade positions with you! Myself included.
Coming to EK will help you in one way for sure, realising what you really want to do for a flying job. It was pretty good 5-6 years ago but now its just a stop off to something else. Most guys talk about being home everynight as a dream job, gear down at sundown.....
You will need a strong marriage, fiscal restraint and good exit strategy (i.e. were leaving tonight) to survive here.
Good Luck
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Duh?
I don't get it with the new restriction on only 2 same layovers a month...the bidding system does not work unless you are pretty high up the totem pole or its your top or 2nd top bidding month.
The rest of the months you get sent all over the EK network at the whims and fancies of their ops requirement. And when they roster you for 90 hours without fail, there are a lot of opportunities for other destinations to be included.
Just another one of the stupid things to screw up our lives.
The rest of the months you get sent all over the EK network at the whims and fancies of their ops requirement. And when they roster you for 90 hours without fail, there are a lot of opportunities for other destinations to be included.
Just another one of the stupid things to screw up our lives.
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What part of expat pilot do you not understand? EK owns you.They will bo whatever they want with you and you have no recousre. For those who are thinking of coming this way be prepared to have no rights or say
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Try asking this one to the HR gimp at interview and see what the answer is:
What is the point of me signing a contract with you when the company has no intension of honoring it?
See what the answer is.
And while you're at it, ask them if it's in the contract that there's a Cap on the utilities? Which they say they pay.
It's about 21500 Dhs a year which equates to about 4000 STG which sounds alot you might say, well I can asure you it's not.
and DEWA can just put their charges up any time they like, so think about that when you buy your own house or flat.
What is the point of me signing a contract with you when the company has no intension of honoring it?
See what the answer is.
And while you're at it, ask them if it's in the contract that there's a Cap on the utilities? Which they say they pay.
It's about 21500 Dhs a year which equates to about 4000 STG which sounds alot you might say, well I can asure you it's not.
and DEWA can just put their charges up any time they like, so think about that when you buy your own house or flat.
Last edited by puff m'call; 8th Oct 2009 at 15:19.
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To some of us in the US, 83 hours of block is normal. Backside of the clock flying normal. I have not had overtime pay since 1989. That is no BS
A very easy month for a lot of us is 78 hours.
I am not slamming anyone, just pointing out that SOME not ALL the gripes on this thread seem pretty normal to some of us.
A very easy month for a lot of us is 78 hours.
I am not slamming anyone, just pointing out that SOME not ALL the gripes on this thread seem pretty normal to some of us.
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Good for you Kempilot, you are the EK dream candidate. It's guys of your calibre who one day become Chief Pilots in an airline such as EK.
I'm not trying to slam anyone, but just saying what is reality in this part of the world. Wish you luck.
BTW, the normal here is not 83hrs, but 90-92hrs. The problem is that when hired the agreed OT threshold was around 78hrs.
I'm not trying to slam anyone, but just saying what is reality in this part of the world. Wish you luck.
BTW, the normal here is not 83hrs, but 90-92hrs. The problem is that when hired the agreed OT threshold was around 78hrs.
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CAVnotOk
Don't know what you are suggesting by "guys of our caliber" but I am just stating what is mostly normal here in the USA. I know pilots at JM that are shocked when they see how much we fly in America.
You who are used to flying low block hours would die here.
Don't know what you are suggesting by "guys of our caliber" but I am just stating what is mostly normal here in the USA. I know pilots at JM that are shocked when they see how much we fly in America.
You who are used to flying low block hours would die here.