One frequent travelers views on certain expat pilots
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Speaking of dulcet tones...
Mid 90's on TWA JFK-PHX I was amused to hear that the voice giving the address sounded just like Jack Palance...a deep, gravelly and authoritave voice from the sharp end certainly goes some way to putting you at ease on a cold night after spending 2hrs waiting to be de-iced!
Hustle On
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Mid 90's on TWA JFK-PHX I was amused to hear that the voice giving the address sounded just like Jack Palance...a deep, gravelly and authoritave voice from the sharp end certainly goes some way to putting you at ease on a cold night after spending 2hrs waiting to be de-iced!
At this point I don’t care how well-groomed the flight attendants are
Well they do at Air Asia apparently, according to this thread:
Jobs for GOOD LOOKING people only at Air Asia.
running concurently on the South Asia and Far East forum
I wonder what some of the more critical posters on this thread make of that ......
Jack
PS And also the fact that, in addition to being "Well groomed and good looking", candidates for flight attendant must have" Fluent spoken English"!
Well they do at Air Asia apparently, according to this thread:
Jobs for GOOD LOOKING people only at Air Asia.
running concurently on the South Asia and Far East forum
I wonder what some of the more critical posters on this thread make of that ......
Jack
PS And also the fact that, in addition to being "Well groomed and good looking", candidates for flight attendant must have" Fluent spoken English"!
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One would hope that in this day and age, pilots flying large transport aircraft for a reputable airline are capable of achieving and maintaining a relatively higher than average flying standard. They should have been selected through a stringent interviewing process, trained to a highly regulated syllabus and kept current with regular six monthly check rides. The requirement to be able to do all this at a high level of English goes without saying.
So if he/she has an exotic sounding name, or gives PA's with an accent, who gives a rats? As long as they can fly the machine and handle emergencies that's what saves lives, not PA's in the queens english. Sorry to shatter that myth..
Mmmm I wonder if I should have emblazoned on my medical insurance card, "In the event of a life saving operation, I want to be operated on only by a doctor who has a British accent and can quote Shakespeare"
So if he/she has an exotic sounding name, or gives PA's with an accent, who gives a rats? As long as they can fly the machine and handle emergencies that's what saves lives, not PA's in the queens english. Sorry to shatter that myth..
Mmmm I wonder if I should have emblazoned on my medical insurance card, "In the event of a life saving operation, I want to be operated on only by a doctor who has a British accent and can quote Shakespeare"
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I'm amazed and disappointed at the number of posters who have turned a passengers perspective and ligitimate concern of a Pilot's announcement in accordance with ICAO language expectations into a raciest issue... instead of rallying around and trying to put at ease anyone who may reads this there is a core group who has jumped onto the racist band wagon.... the attitude of "I don't have to answer or justify my actions because I say it's racist" isn't a lot of good if your rubbish attitude causes someone to be injured because they didn't understand a word you've just said over the PA system.
It sounds to me like the bigger issue is perhaps one of pilot ego in conflict with standards... 15 or 20 years ago there was a massive purge in the UK of surgeons with a God complex who knew better than everyone... perhaps we need this in our industry, then perhaps the accident rates might improve because the people left might just have the right attitudes and the passengers who we ae all critically short of at the moment may feel a little more secure and safer when they travel with people who they have faith in rather than are expected to have faith in.
It sounds to me like the bigger issue is perhaps one of pilot ego in conflict with standards... 15 or 20 years ago there was a massive purge in the UK of surgeons with a God complex who knew better than everyone... perhaps we need this in our industry, then perhaps the accident rates might improve because the people left might just have the right attitudes and the passengers who we ae all critically short of at the moment may feel a little more secure and safer when they travel with people who they have faith in rather than are expected to have faith in.
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Hi!
A PA announcement has nothing to do with flying. As an PAX airline pilot, you are not flying cargo, or by yourself, so part of the job is doing a good job communicating effectively to your PAX. THere was a recent American pilot column about how most US PAX pilots suck on their PA announcements.
As far as good English speaking pilots being able to communicate effectively with ATC, it DEPENDS. I am based in NBO, and the local pilots have an easier time with ATC, because they can understand ATC better than I can. However, if they fly outside of the Brit/Kenyan/Swahili-English area, then they may have more difficulties than me. I just heard an American who spoke PERFECT (well, perfect American English, anyway) English have a VERY difficult time understanding NBO ground-it was also his 1st time at NBO, and the radio comm did not go well.
I would say that right now the European-based (Americans, Aussies, etc.) pilots ARE safer than, say, Africans, not because they are European but because their country is more technologically advanced, and their country has better resources and spends more on training. If you took a typical African, and put him in the same background and training, as, say, a Frenchman, he would do just as well at flying. I flew with some Nigerians in mil flight school, and they did poorly, because they came in under-prepared by their country...not their fault at all...and they tried very hard to make up for it but couldn't.
Also, I do want to point out, that while I feel a "Western" pilot, on average, is better, I have flown with some great African pilots, and some crap American ones. The biggest factor is the motivation and desire of the individual to learn what they need to to be a professional pilot. Also, I am in NBO, and I know that Kenya has more money and resources for training than a lot of other countries in Africa, so I am lucky...good radar, ATC, etc.
I think that countries hiring their own citizens as pilots is the BEST idea, as LONG AS they get the background, training, and support they need to become professional pilots.
If you fly with me, I will TRY, which is THE most important thing!
cliff
NBO
PS-I am studying the British CAA testing materials. Mostly filler, that has nothing to do with flying, to weed out candidates??? Sometimes the stuff I'm learning is interesting, even though it doesn't have much to do with flying, and sometimes it is just plane (Hahahaha!) stupid.
A PA announcement has nothing to do with flying. As an PAX airline pilot, you are not flying cargo, or by yourself, so part of the job is doing a good job communicating effectively to your PAX. THere was a recent American pilot column about how most US PAX pilots suck on their PA announcements.
As far as good English speaking pilots being able to communicate effectively with ATC, it DEPENDS. I am based in NBO, and the local pilots have an easier time with ATC, because they can understand ATC better than I can. However, if they fly outside of the Brit/Kenyan/Swahili-English area, then they may have more difficulties than me. I just heard an American who spoke PERFECT (well, perfect American English, anyway) English have a VERY difficult time understanding NBO ground-it was also his 1st time at NBO, and the radio comm did not go well.
I would say that right now the European-based (Americans, Aussies, etc.) pilots ARE safer than, say, Africans, not because they are European but because their country is more technologically advanced, and their country has better resources and spends more on training. If you took a typical African, and put him in the same background and training, as, say, a Frenchman, he would do just as well at flying. I flew with some Nigerians in mil flight school, and they did poorly, because they came in under-prepared by their country...not their fault at all...and they tried very hard to make up for it but couldn't.
Also, I do want to point out, that while I feel a "Western" pilot, on average, is better, I have flown with some great African pilots, and some crap American ones. The biggest factor is the motivation and desire of the individual to learn what they need to to be a professional pilot. Also, I am in NBO, and I know that Kenya has more money and resources for training than a lot of other countries in Africa, so I am lucky...good radar, ATC, etc.
I think that countries hiring their own citizens as pilots is the BEST idea, as LONG AS they get the background, training, and support they need to become professional pilots.
If you fly with me, I will TRY, which is THE most important thing!
cliff
NBO
PS-I am studying the British CAA testing materials. Mostly filler, that has nothing to do with flying, to weed out candidates??? Sometimes the stuff I'm learning is interesting, even though it doesn't have much to do with flying, and sometimes it is just plane (Hahahaha!) stupid.
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Miles,
The entire article is very subjective. There many pilots of various nationalities that do not sound very good when speaking English because it is not their native tongue. However,they still have a very good understanding of the language. If I want to generalise , then I can also use the argument that American pilots are bad because they cannot understand the English spoken on half the our network. I have flown to many places where the controller has had a very good command of the English language but the F/O from a so called preferred nation in the list that this guy mentions, has had trouble understanding because of accent.
Fortunately,or unfortunately for some, English is the official language in aviation.However, it is not the mother tongue for all pilots.That is why most pilots are based on their overall ability ,which includes basic English language proficiency,by the Airlines.So basically if the author of the article is not happy with certain nationalities in a particular airline, then he should not fly on that airline because all the pilots in that airline are trained to the same standard.
Personally I think that the article was written in bad taste as it insinuates that pilots from third world countries are bad in general.
The entire article is very subjective. There many pilots of various nationalities that do not sound very good when speaking English because it is not their native tongue. However,they still have a very good understanding of the language. If I want to generalise , then I can also use the argument that American pilots are bad because they cannot understand the English spoken on half the our network. I have flown to many places where the controller has had a very good command of the English language but the F/O from a so called preferred nation in the list that this guy mentions, has had trouble understanding because of accent.
Fortunately,or unfortunately for some, English is the official language in aviation.However, it is not the mother tongue for all pilots.That is why most pilots are based on their overall ability ,which includes basic English language proficiency,by the Airlines.So basically if the author of the article is not happy with certain nationalities in a particular airline, then he should not fly on that airline because all the pilots in that airline are trained to the same standard.
Personally I think that the article was written in bad taste as it insinuates that pilots from third world countries are bad in general.
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One thing that's hard to deny is that in certain societies, men and women begin dealing with machinery as mere children, whether it's the farm tractor they drive as a 12-year-old, the '49 Ford they rebuild in high school, their dad's Piper Cub that they solo at 16, the boat their parents let them drive on the lake during summer vacation as mere kids.
My own daughter began driving at the age of 12, when we'd send her off in the family pickup (yes, manual gearbox) to take the garbage down our quarter-mile-long driveway to the main road for collection. (Today she's 30 and drives our Porsche 911 racecar.)
In other cultures, there are people who never operate or perhaps even see a machine until they're adults, if ever. I would wonder if that has an effect upon one's ability to competently operate complex equipment. Not because it isn't impossible to learn how to do it, but because I would wonder what sort of responses and understandings become ingrained as a part of growing up in a mechanical culture.
My own daughter began driving at the age of 12, when we'd send her off in the family pickup (yes, manual gearbox) to take the garbage down our quarter-mile-long driveway to the main road for collection. (Today she's 30 and drives our Porsche 911 racecar.)
In other cultures, there are people who never operate or perhaps even see a machine until they're adults, if ever. I would wonder if that has an effect upon one's ability to competently operate complex equipment. Not because it isn't impossible to learn how to do it, but because I would wonder what sort of responses and understandings become ingrained as a part of growing up in a mechanical culture.
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Let the Japanese design things like no one else can, let the chinese build them for the best possible price, let the Arabs provide the fuel to make them run, then let a westerner fly it around the place(and the people who made it).
Its not racist to say that people are different and have different skill sets.
Having said that, the belgians are weird, the germans are uptight, the french can't speak english, the irish drink too much, the english think they own the world, the americans know they own the world, the spanish can't speak english, the italians are lazy, the scottish are like the irish and so are most of the scandinavians. But I'm not rascist. At the end of the day, europeans and north americans have a deep rooted culture in aviation.
Its not racist to say that people are different and have different skill sets.
Having said that, the belgians are weird, the germans are uptight, the french can't speak english, the irish drink too much, the english think they own the world, the americans know they own the world, the spanish can't speak english, the italians are lazy, the scottish are like the irish and so are most of the scandinavians. But I'm not rascist. At the end of the day, europeans and north americans have a deep rooted culture in aviation.
