The Week From Hell
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The Week From Hell
So how'd y'all enjoy flying around DXB's CB's this last week? 
From a controllers point of view it was no fun at all, not even a little bit. We got hit on all three shifts, I think, morning, afternoon and midnight, for like the last six days or so. Delays for all, fuel emergencies, short tempers, sometimes up to three runway changes an hour, workload going through the roof. Same in the cockpit, I'm sure.
Just a few tidbits worth sharing. First, neither we (DXB Approach), nor Abu Dhabi Center have wx radar. We see nothing, nada. Can't vector you around anything, can't plan traffic flows, just try to form a mental picture (mental is a good word..) of ever changing weather based on what you tell us. Results are not too good, as you've probably noticed. Also, the system is not set up for crap weather. Whereas 'back home' we can easy handle snowstorms, thunderstorms et al, here it's like what goes on in the streets of Dubai when it rains a little; everyone freaks and it all comes to a standstill.
Anyway, hats off to all who came through it unscathed, hopefully the clear desert skies will return real soon, although I hear next Saturday Mother Nature is prepping another nasty for us...
From a controllers point of view it was no fun at all, not even a little bit. We got hit on all three shifts, I think, morning, afternoon and midnight, for like the last six days or so. Delays for all, fuel emergencies, short tempers, sometimes up to three runway changes an hour, workload going through the roof. Same in the cockpit, I'm sure.
Just a few tidbits worth sharing. First, neither we (DXB Approach), nor Abu Dhabi Center have wx radar. We see nothing, nada. Can't vector you around anything, can't plan traffic flows, just try to form a mental picture (mental is a good word..) of ever changing weather based on what you tell us. Results are not too good, as you've probably noticed. Also, the system is not set up for crap weather. Whereas 'back home' we can easy handle snowstorms, thunderstorms et al, here it's like what goes on in the streets of Dubai when it rains a little; everyone freaks and it all comes to a standstill.
Anyway, hats off to all who came through it unscathed, hopefully the clear desert skies will return real soon, although I hear next Saturday Mother Nature is prepping another nasty for us...
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Yah must not be fun for you at all...can only imagine...what's the difference between the radars over here and the ones in the States?? Noticed that and others when I came here..
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Well, in Canada we had primary radar (along with secondary) same as here. Quick course: 2 radar systems working simultaneously: primary radar is the energy that hits the airplane, secondary radar 'talks' to the transponder. Today the names should be reversed, but whatever. Soooo, it's obviously the primary radar which gives returns from clouds (precip), enabling controllers to 'see' weather. However, although we have the equipment, for some reason we don't display this info in the UAE. Actually, we don't need it 99% of the time.
Again back home, this primary radar is often 'digitized' to give a better presentation, and also, many places have a specialized weather radar feed superimposed on the controllers scope, giving even more accurate info. And we had actual lightning shown on our screens.
Having said all that, the fanciest and most accurate weather radar is still the stuff you have in the cockpit.
But as I alluded to earlier, equipment is only a part of the problem...
Again back home, this primary radar is often 'digitized' to give a better presentation, and also, many places have a specialized weather radar feed superimposed on the controllers scope, giving even more accurate info. And we had actual lightning shown on our screens.
Having said all that, the fanciest and most accurate weather radar is still the stuff you have in the cockpit.
But as I alluded to earlier, equipment is only a part of the problem...
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Grrrrrrrrrr!!!
Well it would help if:
1) DXB and AUH ATC would bury their little political games and start TALKING to each other.
2) It would also help if AUH not tell the neighbouring FIRs that Dubai is closed while it isn't. Muscat and Bahrain panicked and planes were held on the ground or outside the FIRs, waiting for a sector to open that was never closed in the first place.
Great job, ATC!! Really appreciate.
1) DXB and AUH ATC would bury their little political games and start TALKING to each other.
2) It would also help if AUH not tell the neighbouring FIRs that Dubai is closed while it isn't. Muscat and Bahrain panicked and planes were held on the ground or outside the FIRs, waiting for a sector to open that was never closed in the first place.
Great job, ATC!! Really appreciate.
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I landed at about 20:45 Mon. night in AUH and the guy working 124.4 did and outstanding job. CB's everywhere 9 or 10 planes trying to land and he kept it all together. GOOD WORK.
by Etisalat.... LOL.
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It would also help if AUH not tell the neighbouring FIRs that Dubai is closed while it isn't. Muscat and Bahrain panicked and planes were held on the ground or outside the FIRs, waiting for a sector to open that was never closed in the first place.
And if anybody from (insert airline) Ops reads this then I have some advice for you: Don't phone the UAE Area Centre in Abu Dhabi or Dubai Approach and demand to know why your aircraft are delayed. Look out the fu....ng window, you halfwit.
For Dubai & Abu Dhabi Approach I have two words: "Yeah baby!!"
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MrMach5.5
I think you may be confused. As mentioned, Dubai may not be closed, but either Dubai App or UAE ACC has reached saturation and cannot accept any more traffic. The actual words used to convey this message to the neighbouring FIRs may be a little confusing (as they are the same as for closing the airport), but thats what they mean. A way of reducing the traffic load is to prevent any more aircraft getting airborne to head to Dubai.
The airport isnt "closed" as such, but the effect is the same, and the message you received may have been that the airport is closed. We realise that the airline's preferred option is to get airborne and then hold, but at times over the last week that hasnt been an option.
It would also help if AUH not tell the neighbouring FIRs that Dubai is closed while it isn't
The airport isnt "closed" as such, but the effect is the same, and the message you received may have been that the airport is closed. We realise that the airline's preferred option is to get airborne and then hold, but at times over the last week that hasnt been an option.
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To imabirdbrain: I personally did not see any EK flights declare fuel emergencies. Had several declare bingo fuel and then divert but that's normal ops.
BTW: As a refresher for all, the difference (for ATC) between telling us you are "low on fuel" amd declaring a "fuel emergency" is that in the former case you will get a 'roger', and, in normal weather, perhaps a teensy bit of sympathy, such as approach telling tower not to pull you up if at all possible because you're low on fuel.......Now, if you declare a fuel emergency, well HELLO, you have our full and undivided attention, you are going direct UKRIM number ONE, everone outta my way (kinda like typical Dubai queing
. Funny aside to that. Because you've declared an emergency, the fire trucks will follow you down the runway, freaking out the passengers, although most sane people will know that the last thing you need once you're on the ground is a parade of brightly-lit trucks announcing your (late) arrival. 
BTW: As a refresher for all, the difference (for ATC) between telling us you are "low on fuel" amd declaring a "fuel emergency" is that in the former case you will get a 'roger', and, in normal weather, perhaps a teensy bit of sympathy, such as approach telling tower not to pull you up if at all possible because you're low on fuel.......Now, if you declare a fuel emergency, well HELLO, you have our full and undivided attention, you are going direct UKRIM number ONE, everone outta my way (kinda like typical Dubai queing
. Funny aside to that. Because you've declared an emergency, the fire trucks will follow you down the runway, freaking out the passengers, although most sane people will know that the last thing you need once you're on the ground is a parade of brightly-lit trucks announcing your (late) arrival.
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I came in a few nights ago in the thick of it with the worst weather virtually on long final. Great co-operation from ATC made for a quick and uneventfull arrival and landing.
Thanks guys and gals
Thanks guys and gals
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Just a plea from one of the Muscat controllers who only just survived the last two night shifts; please, UAE, if you tell us to hold aircraft in our airspace because of congestion in your airspace (we do understand), please do us the courtesy of automatically holding departures into our airspace until the traffic becomes manageable. We held dozens of aircraft in our airspace in ad hoc holding patterns with terrible weather throughout our FIR only to see wave after wave of departures from AUH and DXB sent into the clouds of holding traffic on our side of the boundary.
It would help if you could give us maybe a 15 minute warning that you may require holding in our airspace so that we can start, while we're not overloaded, to put into place some measures that will prevent what is happening now...chaos. Before you criticise us for not having contingency plans, please know that we are severely short-staffed and are unable to resectorise because of this shortage. Until we get more people, we really need to think about practical solutions before we think of theoretical ones.
Just out of interest for all you who fly through our airspace, we are often getting sector loadings of 30+ aircraft at a time. It's not fun during good weather and a positive nightmare in bad.
And to all you pilots who listened out carefully and responded well the last two nights, a big thank you. A bigger thank you to the EK pilot who read back an awful holding pattern clearance that I had to dream up quickly in the heat of battle. It went something along the lines of : "EKXXX, fly heading XXX for three minutes, then turn to heading XXX for one minute, then make a right turn towards XXX and set up a right hand holding pattern, two minute legs, inbound track will be that final course towards XXX, let me know if that makes sense!!" This was all said at Mach 5 and he got it in one. Well done, sir, my hat's off to you.
It would help if you could give us maybe a 15 minute warning that you may require holding in our airspace so that we can start, while we're not overloaded, to put into place some measures that will prevent what is happening now...chaos. Before you criticise us for not having contingency plans, please know that we are severely short-staffed and are unable to resectorise because of this shortage. Until we get more people, we really need to think about practical solutions before we think of theoretical ones.
Just out of interest for all you who fly through our airspace, we are often getting sector loadings of 30+ aircraft at a time. It's not fun during good weather and a positive nightmare in bad.
And to all you pilots who listened out carefully and responded well the last two nights, a big thank you. A bigger thank you to the EK pilot who read back an awful holding pattern clearance that I had to dream up quickly in the heat of battle. It went something along the lines of : "EKXXX, fly heading XXX for three minutes, then turn to heading XXX for one minute, then make a right turn towards XXX and set up a right hand holding pattern, two minute legs, inbound track will be that final course towards XXX, let me know if that makes sense!!" This was all said at Mach 5 and he got it in one. Well done, sir, my hat's off to you.
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One thing i noticed was that during this &#/@&$@#_)*)
weather over the area and traffic jam ,you could hear only english native speakers controller giving instructions,i think the others fellows were taking lessons on how to handle aircrafts in a busy enviroment full of CB's. Outstanding job guys !
ps: It was fun to have the same kind of weather i used to have from the place i come from.Finally i work instead of pushing buttons and sleeping all the time.
weather over the area and traffic jam ,you could hear only english native speakers controller giving instructions,i think the others fellows were taking lessons on how to handle aircrafts in a busy enviroment full of CB's. Outstanding job guys ! ps: It was fun to have the same kind of weather i used to have from the place i come from.Finally i work
instead of pushing buttons and sleeping all the time.
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Often complaints from us never gratitude. many thanks to the controllers onvolved , great job . considering you were hammering nails with a wooden mallet! The wonderfull accountant types ( despicable scum) probably figured that the average rainfall in the region does not warrant the expense of the radar purchase (and that most planes have radar). The tossers dont realise that one day someone they love could be the victim of their own policy.
" they know the cost of everything but the value of nothing"
" they know the cost of everything but the value of nothing"
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thanks god we didnīt have that weather in Doha...!
With only one guy and one frequency to control everything..only a few CB around is enough to have a big mess here on the frequency....
With only one guy and one frequency to control everything..only a few CB around is enough to have a big mess here on the frequency....
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Dubai airspace closed
I heard the same confused message out of Changi last week.
An Emirates aircraft was told by delivery that they should not depart due to Dubai airspace being closed due bad weather!
After a very frustrated conversation the aircraft eventually pushed back. Not common to hear that related to weather prior to a 7 hour flight.
The above threads give me some idea as to how this came about. I will note this for the future. I believe a similar "closure" occurs when there is fog in Dubai also.
An Emirates aircraft was told by delivery that they should not depart due to Dubai airspace being closed due bad weather!
After a very frustrated conversation the aircraft eventually pushed back. Not common to hear that related to weather prior to a 7 hour flight.
The above threads give me some idea as to how this came about. I will note this for the future. I believe a similar "closure" occurs when there is fog in Dubai also.
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Well folks hang on to your pantyhose as a new upper level low pressure system is dipping through the region. Once again the reports are saying we will get more rain in the area in the next couple of days than the average year.
Maybe time for that wx radar system,hmmm....
Let the games begin.
Maybe time for that wx radar system,hmmm....
Let the games begin.
