Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Saudia

Old 5th Sep 2015, 18:38
  #1001 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,432
what is the point of offering 20/10?
Would you believe that a lot of the locals think that quality of life is more important than money? So they like the idea of 10 days off.
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Old 7th Sep 2015, 15:15
  #1002 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 9
Dear all gentleman,

I'm interested to join SV. May I know how's the working environment? Cockpit atmosphere?
Appreciate your advice.
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Old 11th Sep 2015, 07:12
  #1003 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: california
Age: 61
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The working environment and atmosphere is generally reasonable.

Current failure rates during training remain high at around the 50% level which is a little better than a few years ago but still very high. Interview pass rates are better but shortly Saudia will start formal background checks.

Last edited by polax52; 11th Sep 2015 at 08:06.
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Old 11th Sep 2015, 09:51
  #1004 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,432
shortly Saudia will start formal background checks.
about time

is the 50% failure rate in the sim or line training? and is it aircraft specific?
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Old 11th Sep 2015, 10:31
  #1005 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
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I think the 50% failure rate is a mixture of both of those, at a guess I would say more failures come during line training. I think there is a lot of pressure on the academy to get people through the ground part of training. The Saudi line instructors however are not going to put anybody who they are not happy with in front of GACA or up for the company check. Fleets, well I have heard of failures on all fleets.

You can fairly accurately say that 50% of people who start today will not be here in 1 years time.
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Old 12th Sep 2015, 01:12
  #1006 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 9
Dear Polax52,

May I know generally, what are the failure items in either sim or line training?
Is training in SV really stressful or tough?
Need your advice. TQ
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Old 12th Sep 2015, 09:05
  #1007 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,432
Skyteam member this week has outlined planned Boeing 787-9 operations, currently scheduled to enter service from Feb 2016. Initially the Boeing 787-9 will operate domestic flights, as well as Gulf service to/from Dubai, followed by service to Europe and China from March 2016.

Configuration of the 787-9 is J24Y274, total 298 seats.

Planned Boeing 787-9 operation as follow.

eff 01FEB16 Jeddah Riyadh Various frequencies. First flight scheduled on SV1020 from JED to RUH
eff 01FEB16 Jeddah Dammam Various frequencies
eff 01FEB16 Jeddah Dubai 1 daily SV588/589 (until 29FEB16)
eff 01FEB16 Riyadh Dubai Various frequencies
eff 01MAR16 Jeddah Guangzhou 2 weekly
eff 01MAR16 Jeddah Manchester 4 weekly
eff 01MAR16 Jeddah Paris CDG 1 daily
eff 01MAR16 Riyadh Guangzhou 3 weekly
I believe that it will be 9 across economy seating, really cant say that I'm looking forward to flying in this as I think that the 787 seats are just too narrow.
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Old 13th Sep 2015, 01:22
  #1008 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tropopause FL350
Posts: 166
Failure rates

Allow me to offer my dime on the failure rate for this year. Untill end of June things were running very smooth.only 5-6 failures out of 60 ppl. At that time an expat skip made a crucial mistake in his GACA oral. He had a confrontation with his examiner. The examiner failed him ASAP as well as the next 2 expat skippers (collateral losses ).the guy in question ,left the company without notice,he didn't even pay the extras on the hotel.since then things got a very sloppy road.7 out of 8 expats from the next group had difficulties and i dont know about their status right now.Training in SV has one key word ATTITUDE.The right one gives a fair chance to complete your training . The wrong one,on the other hand gives an one way ticket back to your country .All in all failure rate this year is not by any means close to 50% .(approximately 120 expats had joined SV until late June) People in the training are very helpful and willing to assist all the expats with their tasks as long as their culture and their way of thinking are totally understood.People with high ego and high temp forced to quit.people with a lower self esteem and better acting capabilities had no problem at all .its a long process mostly due to lack of IPs in the line training .6-7 months is an average time until the end of training,with huge gaps aftre the rating and the SO or the RH seat flights.
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Old 13th Sep 2015, 02:03
  #1009 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: california
Age: 61
Posts: 302
Alloha- Are you considering the line training? I understand people are coming through the training academy better these days.

I was referring to a particular group of 6 guys who joined last year of which only 3 remain.
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Old 13th Sep 2015, 07:53
  #1010 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: world
Age: 34
Posts: 49
@Mutt : does it mean Sv will fly twice a day to CDG ? or the 787 takes over the 777 ?
Regarding the training, the failure rate has been HUGE for the past 2 months. But Alloha summed up it very well. It's all about attitude ( and a lot of studies ).
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Old 13th Sep 2015, 13:01
  #1011 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,432
or the 787 takes over the 777 ?
I'm assuming that it will take over from the 777 as they already have two flights most days with one to Riyadh.
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Old 13th Sep 2015, 13:08
  #1012 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Age: 34
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ok. Thanks for the reply !
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Old 13th Sep 2015, 14:35
  #1013 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Hammock: In my opinion the training is both stressful and tough and add to that; very long. It goes for 5 to 8 months and you need to meet standards at every stage, it is by no means a formality. I imagine that training is now more streamlined than it was as alloha appears to be more up to date than me and his view is that the failure rate is now less than 50%. Even so I doubt that many more than 50% who start today will still be in Saudia on the 1st September 2016.

With some airlines if you enter as a direct entry Captain then it is a formality, that is definately not the case with Saudia.
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Old 13th Sep 2015, 15:08
  #1014 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tropopause FL350
Posts: 166
SV training

Polax i am not only referring to the academy stage but line training as well. Certainly as you mentioned skippers training is not a formality. But things have changed.Still the most demanding training in the ME
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Old 14th Sep 2015, 18:55
  #1015 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Nashville,Tn.
Posts: 20
SV Interview Day One

Hey everybody just a recap of day one SV interview. Twelve of us went to the Intercon Hotel this morning.We were met by the CP HR rep and a Airbus check airman.We were given an ATP 50 question multiple choice test. There are two exam tests.Followed by a 10 question 10 min apptitude test.We then turn in the required paperwork and waited for our time to interview. Mine lasted 30 mins and it was professional but friendly but not "laid back". I encourage you to study memory items and limitations on your specific aircraft.We all passed,and are waiting Day 2 for the medical and Day 3 for the sim ride..I'll update after those events...V
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Old 15th Sep 2015, 00:14
  #1016 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 9
SV training

@Polax52 @alloha

Thanks for the info. Knowing that SV training are stressful, tough and long, however perhaps it's still manageable. Finger crossed!!!!

May I know the meaning of "the training now is more streamlined"? Does it means the training syllabus have been simplified?

Since you mentioned the instructors are helpful, hopefully the training atmosphere is more enjoyable and less tensed. Am I right?

Good day.
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Old 16th Sep 2015, 11:13
  #1017 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: california
Age: 61
Posts: 302
By more streamlined I simply mean that the scheduling is more efficient, the training materials are better and they have removed the requirement for the GACA ATP written test. Therefore you spend less time in the training centre.

It is manageable but it is a risk to leave a good widebody job to come to Saudia because there is a very real failure rate unlike many other direct entry commands.
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Old 17th Sep 2015, 09:52
  #1018 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Between V1 and V2
Posts: 47
I could believe that the failure rate is high but I think 50% rate is a bit exaggerated. What about the other middle east carriers ( EK OR EY)? Do they also have a high failure rate? Im not hijacking the subject but I think a comparison would be necessary in order to understand how risky the decision to join Saudia is.
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Old 17th Sep 2015, 10:24
  #1019 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: california
Age: 61
Posts: 302
Originally Posted by ClearedToCrush View Post
I could believe that the failure rate is high but I think 50% rate is a bit exaggerated. What about the other middle east carriers ( EK OR EY)? Do they also have a high failure rate? Im not hijacking the subject but I think a comparison would be necessary in order to understand how risky the decision to join Saudia is.
As alloha has stated it is probably not 50% currently but it certainly has been as high as 50% in the recent past. I guess people know better what is expected now. Other middle East carriers do not have a high failure rate of direct entry Captains. I would guess that Saudi f/o's will not accept being bypassed in seniority by people who do not meet the standards that they have to meet during their 1 year long upgrade course.
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Old 17th Sep 2015, 11:38
  #1020 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Between V1 and V2
Posts: 47
Hello Polax,
Thank you for the clarification. I was actually thinking about the failure rate of first officers, not captains. Is this also high? And what is it compared to other middle east carriers?
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