Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.


Old 30th Oct 2012, 18:27
  #501 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stairways to heaven
Posts: 346
not sure mutt is referring to anything but seemingly steep to be making 30k/month easily, to which i agree. however, rating and experience has nothing to do with employment, type, or pic, it's called wasta

just read the gf crash report and you know what wasta means.
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Old 30th Oct 2012, 18:43
  #502 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: ME
Posts: 217
Saddest aviator:

At my time it was 4000h left seat on Cat D. Some credit was also given for lighter aircraft. So, it may be not enough.
They don't consider Airbus or Boeing. Just weight and left seat hours.
Once again, if you have enough left seat hours on 767, don't break it into subtypes. Let it be 767. They may well be happy not to ask about details.
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Old 31st Oct 2012, 19:32
  #503 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,433
Group A - 12,000 kgs to 44,999 kgs MTOW
Group B - From 45,000 kgs to 159,999 kgs MTOW
Group C - From 160,000 kgs to 299,999 kgs MTOW
Group D - Above 300,000 kgs MTOW
A Captain hired into GroupD requires a minimum of 5,500 hours
of which he must have logged as PIC in Air Carrier operation:
3,500 hours Jet time on Group C Aircraft, OR
2,500 hours Jet time on Group D Aircraft.
Direct hire Captain whose experience on Group D aircraft falls
short of the hours above, may substitute 2.0 hours of Group C
time for each hour of required Group D time. If the required
experience still falls short, he may substitute 3.0 hours of Group
B time for each hour of required Group D time.
IF, and thats very big IF, you want the job badly enough then write to the HR stating that you qualify based on A.B.C..... as per the policy. Failing that, apply to Emir Airlines as a B767 pilot.

seniority is not an issue
Actually it is, because its tied with length of service and annual pay increments.

Again after 90 hours double salary + the extras.
This is not correct, MGT is 78 hours CREDIT HOURS, so at 90 hours you will have 12 hours overtime, not double salary. While the figures that you mention are obtainable, they are not obtainable by new-hires because of their starting salaries.

mutt is offline  
Old 9th Nov 2012, 08:40
  #504 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Istanbul
Age: 62
Posts: 11
double salary

Mutt, I fly for Saudi Airlines. So if you are discussing the whereabouts of double salary get informed first. Most people in the A320 and 777 fly overtime to hit the double salary. They just do not have enough pilots.

You are also wrong on the new-hires salary scale. Seniority is accountable only for Saudis. Seniority for expats has effect mainly at the end of the contract and some perks.
FuelLeak is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2012, 00:51
  #505 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,433
To me double salary is the point where you have earned double your basic salary, so for the A320 the MGT is 73 hours, double that is 146 hours credit time, as overtime kicks in at MGT plus 20 and the rate is 1.5:1, that means you only have to achieve 128 credit hours to get paid double salary, not 90 hours as you have stated. For your information, only 1 Captain achieved that in the month of October.

As for the B777, the magic number to reach double salary is 138 credit hours. No Captain reached that number during the month of October.

Even allowing for the additional productivity based on 100 block hours, no new hire earning the amount that you are stating!

Seniority applies to everyone, you will notice that you get a 3% pay increment next Wednesday. So all of your salary, overtime, flight time benefits are increased.

So please, if your intention is to encourage or discourage people from joining SVA, please quote realistic facts, this will allow them to make an informed decision.

mutt is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2012, 10:44
  #506 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle East
Posts: 308
Hi Mutt,

He is probably including pilot expense/per diem. If included, 66k sar is pretty realistic, hence "double salary". Not technically correct, but I see his logic.

As for 30,000 usd a month, lol, only if you included the Ramadan bonus for that particular month.
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Old 10th Nov 2012, 13:37
  #507 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,433
Again after 90 hours double salary + the extras.
Unfortunately his statement indicated that you got double salary and the extra's. You and I both know that 30K isn't likely for new hires, and considering that most new hires will spend 4 months @ 50% basic salary and then 25% until they reach the required bond, it isn't fair to give people the wrong impression that they will earn $30K per month!

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Old 10th Nov 2012, 19:50
  #508 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle East
Posts: 308
I totally agree with you Mutt.

I would be surprised if even the senior locals are seeing 30k on a regular basis.
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Old 15th Nov 2012, 08:02
  #509 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Istanbul
Age: 62
Posts: 11
double salary

Mutt, you seem to know it all in reference to the pay scale in Saudia. The fact that you keep track of the number of people who made double salary or not tells me you DON'T have a life. LOL

I do not care about bringing in people to Saudia or not. The package is generous even for new hires. You did not mention that after 45 hours there is a productivity increment and other perks like pay for flying on days off . You just tried to confuse with the MGT plus 20 and the ratio 1.5:1 and other BS.

Barry, you may be informed but you are not providing realistic facts either.

I will no longer participate in this forum and have no interest or time to spend in this.

To the people who complain about HR and its delays, Mr. B. K...m has been there for over 25 years and his HR skills are from the 1950's. A desk full of dust piled with hundreds of folders. It will not change and do not expect timely reply of emails, e-courtesy of any type of Western type efficiency. We are here in the year 1494.

Last edited by FuelLeak; 15th Nov 2012 at 08:24. Reason: errors
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Old 15th Nov 2012, 09:19
  #510 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,433
xxxxx, you may be informed but you are not providing realistic facts either.
It's extremely rude to name someone like this, especially when you are WRONG! You should consider removing the name.

The fact that you keep track of the number of people who made double salary or not tells me you DON'T have a life. LOL
You obviously have never heard of Sabre Report Manager!!

mutt is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2012, 10:31
  #511 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere but not at Home
Posts: 283

...the year 1494.

That's not correct. We have 1434 this year. 1.Muharam

Last edited by Airbus_a321; 15th Nov 2012 at 10:36.
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Old 19th Nov 2012, 14:31
  #512 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SEA
Posts: 113
Hi guys!
Saudia has nothing in it's website on flightdeck positions, are they hiring through a contractor? If not, what is the proper channel to lodge an application? Thanks for any info rendered.
richard III is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2012, 17:05
  #513 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South
Age: 39
Posts: 466

Saudia's fleet has always got me curious why they operate so many types (some of them ancient) and secondly why a fair few of them are leased from so many other airlines?
My knowledge of the region is limited but it seems strange that the likes of Emirates, Etihad, Gulf etc buy everything new and always have the latest kit.

Acording to Wiki (yes I know not reliable) They still operate 7 743's . 6 of their 744's are from Air Atlanta and 2 even from Orient Thai apparently . Surely such a long established airline based in an oil rich state shouldn't need to lend of the likes of them?
Rivet Joint is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2012, 02:07
  #514 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Woodlands
Age: 59
Posts: 165
First mistake is trying to make sense of just about anything in the Middle East and most certainly in countries like Saudi or Kuwait.

Trust me I have spent far to much time and energy trying to figure out why these folks do some of the obviously really bad business decisions. The best I can come up with is somewhere along what ever process some individual or group can make a buck. It has nothing to do with what is right or wrong good or bad.

Now granted this can be a pervasive problem with any venture. The difference here is it is normal and widely accepted (wasta)

In the end we must go about our own business collect your pay and enjoy your days off.

Whew! thanks need to get that one out every so often.
jimmyg is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2013, 00:12
  #515 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Kkk
Posts: 62
Hello all,
Happy new year! I just finished reading this thread in its entirety. It appears that SV is not currently hiring. They are however accepting applications for A320 Captains.
Can any one correct me on the info. I am a regional pilot on the right seat in the Great US of A. Thanks again in advance.
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Old 4th Jan 2013, 11:23
  #516 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 844
Fuel Leak.
Really have to disagree the statement about BK in HR.
Have over 11 years in Jeddah, 9 with Saudia, rest with other companies contract for saudia.
Flying and FCGT.
BK is an honest man and will help you settle anything if its within his jurisdiction.
I can say this about Saudia, you work there you will be paid according to your contract in entirety.
If you want to gamble, go to the UAE and watch how they change your current contract and cheat you.
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Old 6th Jan 2013, 04:10
  #517 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 61
recently retired

To respond to Mutt and Earl; I recently retired from Saudia after a long career.
Many years of searching, as we as contractors usually do, I find that the grass is not always greener; just a different shade of brown. When you get to the basic "ins and outs" of working in the mideast, Saudia has always been honest and forthcoming. Pay was never a concern. As pilots we all complain about pay rates and seniority, but thats life in our world. Most of us complained about free meals on board.
The double paycheck is very possible if you will do 110 hours credit. i was lucky in the past year to have a lot of deadhead time and reached that amount.

whatever was written in my contract and mutually agreed to was honored. My checkout procedure was must easier than why people told me they went through a few years ago. Just be patient and take a step at a time. The final payout might take a bit of time depending upon bank clearances and selling a car; but since i was a retiree; the weather in JED was nice and i had nothing pressing.

Good Luck
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Old 6th Jan 2013, 06:10
  #518 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,433
You are the end of an era, I wonder if you ever thought that you would retire here flying B744's?

Congratulations on the retirement

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Old 6th Jan 2013, 06:30
  #519 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 61
of course not

When i was hired at TWA, i was told i was too young for the line, so had to go to SFS, but the door might open sometime to transfer. Seemed that option would open and close depending on new plane orders for the line.
Came a long way from a light twin pilot to the 744.

Just too bad i didnt have another year or so to fly the '800' but thats life

God Bless all my friends and colleagues I've met through the years
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 12:08
  #520 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1
Recruiting 777 Pilots now! with screenings in march!

Looks like they are recruiting again.


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