Gulf Air T&c
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Trader I understand u are not really trying to slag the pilots. My point is most of your posts are double sided. ie. i hope u guys do well but.....
And to be honest for someone who was right in the office when u were here you sure have a lot to say about how bad things are done. Not that this is inaccurate just a tad hypocritical. I am sure you did not tell BN how he was not a selfrespecting manager because he worked at GF as you stated in a previous post. If this was the case then why were you so keen on getting in the office? My whole point is comment of GF's housing all you want or even lifestyle etc,,, but keep your low blows on everything else to yourslef becasue it sounds like u have sour grapes.
"The fact that GF managed to do ANYTHING should be celebrated!!! The Pink Palace is the poster child of everything NOT to do on running a company or an airline."
To me this sounds like someone who has a grudge..... we all wish you well on your move and would never dream of being condescending about EK out of respect. Just asking for the same professionalism back. Good luck
And to be honest for someone who was right in the office when u were here you sure have a lot to say about how bad things are done. Not that this is inaccurate just a tad hypocritical. I am sure you did not tell BN how he was not a selfrespecting manager because he worked at GF as you stated in a previous post. If this was the case then why were you so keen on getting in the office? My whole point is comment of GF's housing all you want or even lifestyle etc,,, but keep your low blows on everything else to yourslef becasue it sounds like u have sour grapes.
"The fact that GF managed to do ANYTHING should be celebrated!!! The Pink Palace is the poster child of everything NOT to do on running a company or an airline."
To me this sounds like someone who has a grudge..... we all wish you well on your move and would never dream of being condescending about EK out of respect. Just asking for the same professionalism back. Good luck
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Actually, if you read my other posts I do mention that Flight Ops is run well. CC is, from what I hear, doing a great job, and BN always did as well. But the other departments in HQ are what I was referring to (staff travel, HR etc). It is these 'other' areas of GF that pull down flt ops and the upper brass from doing their job. If flt ops was run like some of the other dept's aircraft would never get off the ground - that's a testement to the people in flt ops - including BN!
No grudge at all by the way. I enjoyed GF and would still be there if the situation was different. I think the one post based on the article (the one you quote) is the only post where I was double sided. Yup, it was harsh but it was more a reaction to the article itself and what the author was trying to portray.
My response to the post about housing was right on - go take a look yourself with an agent.
I have too many good firend at GF to wish it ill. Besides that fact, as I stated before, we are ALL in the same boat- trying to make a living and I don't want anyone, anywhere to lose their job (been there- done that).
No grudge at all by the way. I enjoyed GF and would still be there if the situation was different. I think the one post based on the article (the one you quote) is the only post where I was double sided. Yup, it was harsh but it was more a reaction to the article itself and what the author was trying to portray.
My response to the post about housing was right on - go take a look yourself with an agent.
I have too many good firend at GF to wish it ill. Besides that fact, as I stated before, we are ALL in the same boat- trying to make a living and I don't want anyone, anywhere to lose their job (been there- done that).
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never once questioned your housing statement. And sorry in a previous post u directly stated that no self respecting managment personnel would be at GF. And by the way if my memory serves me right that whole post was about Flt Ops and the future. To me that is way overlimits considering how you operated when you were at GF. That is not saying anything negative just stating fact. My whole point is that you have made way to many comments on things that are best kept to yourself and mates over beers. NO ONE wants to hear how GF is a joke and how we are bound for countinual turmoil from someone who left running if you get what I mean. Especially when times are looking so good for GF and the people that "stuck it out" are revived and cautiously optimistic.
Join Date: Apr 1999
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DH - about that you are right! I should have commented on the author of the article and not GF. Fair enough. Having said that I believe that was my only negative post about GF (don't know where way too many comments come from) and it was NOT negative about upper management - which I think was clear. It was negative about the government (and I should have said the BOD - or at least the old BOD).
The post that you referred to was also cautiously optimistic. The changes are GREAT for the pilots (ie. 340-500) and they should be bloody happy - which was the intent of the last sentance of that post. Pay raises, new aircraft, new routes etc are all a nice change for GF and the boys deserve it.
In any case, one negative post is all I left regarding GF and will be that last. For the record I can't find one post I made that was simply negative for the sake of being negative save this one. If there are negative posts they are all in response to one or two particular issues and the responses are relevant to that topic.
As for how I 'operated' well I am not sure what that means. I applied for a position, didn't get it and then did some work on the pay issues. No politics on my side and blunt honesty in the room when pay was discussed.
Anyway, I think I figured out who you are DH and considering the many converstaions we had I think you know we are on the same wavelength - ie. no ill-will on my part for anyone who is still at GF or for GF itself.
Having said all that I can certainly apologize for the tone of the post I made since I can see how it 'spoils' the nice changes that are happening. I could have written it in a much better way.
The post that you referred to was also cautiously optimistic. The changes are GREAT for the pilots (ie. 340-500) and they should be bloody happy - which was the intent of the last sentance of that post. Pay raises, new aircraft, new routes etc are all a nice change for GF and the boys deserve it.
In any case, one negative post is all I left regarding GF and will be that last. For the record I can't find one post I made that was simply negative for the sake of being negative save this one. If there are negative posts they are all in response to one or two particular issues and the responses are relevant to that topic.
As for how I 'operated' well I am not sure what that means. I applied for a position, didn't get it and then did some work on the pay issues. No politics on my side and blunt honesty in the room when pay was discussed.
Anyway, I think I figured out who you are DH and considering the many converstaions we had I think you know we are on the same wavelength - ie. no ill-will on my part for anyone who is still at GF or for GF itself.
Having said all that I can certainly apologize for the tone of the post I made since I can see how it 'spoils' the nice changes that are happening. I could have written it in a much better way.
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Ahh - just found the one other post you referred to:
The majority of CEO's have a specialty. Whether in aviation or outside they often come with a background from finance, marketing or operations. Their area of expertise tends to lie in one area or another. So to expect B Naf to understand all the nuances is a bit much.
But a good CEO at a successful company will surround himself with highly competant people in every area - specifically those he is weak in. This is what GF has NEVER done. GF has always promoted and hired based on whether someone was Bahraini and, in Hogans day, if he was Austrailian. In every case connections played the primary role.
So now they confirm the CEO but say his right hand man has to be Bahraini - same old same old. Hamstring the the CEO.
On the other hand no self respecting manager would take a job at GF any longer because it reputation is too well know.
I thought it was obvious in the statemant that 'manager' reflected the position of CEO which the thread was discussing. No comment intended on flt ops management - which I have always been positive about.
Even in this post I don't 'slag' BN or upper management - it is the opposite. I commented negaitively on the BOD and government.
Anyways, 42C outside and time for a swim!!!
The majority of CEO's have a specialty. Whether in aviation or outside they often come with a background from finance, marketing or operations. Their area of expertise tends to lie in one area or another. So to expect B Naf to understand all the nuances is a bit much.
But a good CEO at a successful company will surround himself with highly competant people in every area - specifically those he is weak in. This is what GF has NEVER done. GF has always promoted and hired based on whether someone was Bahraini and, in Hogans day, if he was Austrailian. In every case connections played the primary role.
So now they confirm the CEO but say his right hand man has to be Bahraini - same old same old. Hamstring the the CEO.
On the other hand no self respecting manager would take a job at GF any longer because it reputation is too well know.
I thought it was obvious in the statemant that 'manager' reflected the position of CEO which the thread was discussing. No comment intended on flt ops management - which I have always been positive about.
Even in this post I don't 'slag' BN or upper management - it is the opposite. I commented negaitively on the BOD and government.
Anyways, 42C outside and time for a swim!!!
Join Date: Jul 2004
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IB57's quote:
I have been here now for 2 years and 6 months exactly. It sounds pretty reasonable to say that there will be no A320 FO fleet transfers happening before October/November. So, 2 years to 330/340? Yeah right.
Also, heard a rumour that the company has been in touch with contractors to provide DE 330/340 FO's because they are too short on 320 FO's to release anyone for a transfer. This is one of the many reasons why people leave. And they still remain baffled...
two-year f.o.'s on 320 now moving on to 330/340 f.o.
Also, heard a rumour that the company has been in touch with contractors to provide DE 330/340 FO's because they are too short on 320 FO's to release anyone for a transfer. This is one of the many reasons why people leave. And they still remain baffled...
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GF
Its quite hard to understand GF.
They almost kicked out some 200 pilots last year, saw many of them on recruitment interviews in the gulf area and all said the same thing: "they decided to downsize the airline", and now less than 1yr later they start hiring again close to same numbers...
Go figure!
They almost kicked out some 200 pilots last year, saw many of them on recruitment interviews in the gulf area and all said the same thing: "they decided to downsize the airline", and now less than 1yr later they start hiring again close to same numbers...
Go figure!
Join Date: Jul 2007
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"They almost kicked out some 200 pilots last year, saw many of them on recruitment interviews in the gulf area and all said the same thing: "they decided to downsize the airline", and now less than 1yr later they start hiring again close to same numbers..."
Yeah - the most pointed part of the article posted elsewhere doesn't look like it's on their site.
It was basically a table listing the contradictions in the last year
eg
Dose: "We need to downsize the airline"
Gulf Air buys 40-50 aircraft
Dose: "Aircraft from two manufacturers adds complexity and costs"
Gulf Air orders new planes from both Airbus and Boeing.
Dose: We can't keep losing money
Now: We will be losing money for the next five years.
Here's hoping it's the right path now!
Yeah - the most pointed part of the article posted elsewhere doesn't look like it's on their site.
It was basically a table listing the contradictions in the last year
eg
Dose: "We need to downsize the airline"
Gulf Air buys 40-50 aircraft
Dose: "Aircraft from two manufacturers adds complexity and costs"
Gulf Air orders new planes from both Airbus and Boeing.
Dose: We can't keep losing money
Now: We will be losing money for the next five years.
Here's hoping it's the right path now!
Join Date: Sep 2006
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i think it is inevitable DEfos will be required for the above A330 expansion reasons. they did this as early as a year and a half ago...and very badly in some instances in that some of the f/os they brought in didn't even have the experience other f/os in the company already had.
i hope this will be done ONLY after every possible option (and prospective line f/o) had been looked at.
in all fairness to gf, fleet expansion cannot be slowed down due to lack of experienced pilots.
a problem i foresee is a lack in experience of f/os in seniority number 80 onwards, hence the possibility of the need for DEfos in the interim for the big busses.
the company would be wise to consider the repercussions of resorting to DEfos. a good compromise might be to have them employed on contract with a clearly defined end period.
i think at worst, using DEfos may set back progression from the 320 to the 330 by around 10 months.
i hope this will be done ONLY after every possible option (and prospective line f/o) had been looked at.
in all fairness to gf, fleet expansion cannot be slowed down due to lack of experienced pilots.
a problem i foresee is a lack in experience of f/os in seniority number 80 onwards, hence the possibility of the need for DEfos in the interim for the big busses.
the company would be wise to consider the repercussions of resorting to DEfos. a good compromise might be to have them employed on contract with a clearly defined end period.
i think at worst, using DEfos may set back progression from the 320 to the 330 by around 10 months.
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not so sure about expereience of 80 onwards as not in that group. as far as i know most expats and everyone i know has enough expereince especially to be transfered to 330/340. almost all have the 4000 tot that is required for cpt upgrade. And as far as i know there are no requirements for 330/340 transfer. We will run into a little trouble with some of the new cadets but hey that is the nature fo the beast as they will have their day.
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...a problem i foresee is a lack in experience of f/os in seniority number 80 onwards, hence the possibility of the need for DEfos in the interim for the big busses.
I will not stand for it and was quite happy to build a career with GF. With this bull$hit on the the rise again I am sadly but surely exploring other options.
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SubsonicMortal,
i'm in total agreement with you re using DEfos. i certainly would prefer my fair promotion to the bigger bus.
the couple of dozen f/os after #80 that you mentioned who have met all the requirements will nearly be all expats. this figure was only an estimate as i didn't have the reference at the time.
i stand corrected as the vast majority below #80 will be struggling to even come close. therein lies the problem which may necessitate the services of DEfos.
i only hope gf sees these 'couple of dozens' and utilise them before considering the DEfos. of course they may think along the national intereset and hire the DEfos for such time as is necessary for their nationals to acquire the requirements (should take around 5 to 8 years). just have to wait and see.
i'm in total agreement with you re using DEfos. i certainly would prefer my fair promotion to the bigger bus.
the couple of dozen f/os after #80 that you mentioned who have met all the requirements will nearly be all expats. this figure was only an estimate as i didn't have the reference at the time.
i stand corrected as the vast majority below #80 will be struggling to even come close. therein lies the problem which may necessitate the services of DEfos.
i only hope gf sees these 'couple of dozens' and utilise them before considering the DEfos. of course they may think along the national intereset and hire the DEfos for such time as is necessary for their nationals to acquire the requirements (should take around 5 to 8 years). just have to wait and see.
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Trader undestood
and by operated i mean u were in office therefore not appropriate to comment on ongoings in office on here. I just thought that was childish. Overall we are on same wave length.
brassblate. guys under 80 what will they struggle for? there are absolutely no requirments for Fo to transfer from 320 to 330? so what is the issue? Some newbie locals may have trouble upgrading in time but to me that is a good sign of how fast things are moving. Other than that i htink most guys will have no problems when it comes to requirements. Please fill me in if i am missing something.
and by operated i mean u were in office therefore not appropriate to comment on ongoings in office on here. I just thought that was childish. Overall we are on same wave length. brassblate. guys under 80 what will they struggle for? there are absolutely no requirments for Fo to transfer from 320 to 330? so what is the issue? Some newbie locals may have trouble upgrading in time but to me that is a good sign of how fast things are moving. Other than that i htink most guys will have no problems when it comes to requirements. Please fill me in if i am missing something.
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gf brought in DEfos last time for no apparent reason. now, we have patches of inexperience scattered throughout the seniority and more reasons for them to justify such an action. what will irk me most is if the guys with the experience don't even get looked at. ek brings in DECs, possibly for the sole purpose of causing dis-unity amongst the pilot group. i hope gf does not follow this line of thought. with the availability of re-furloughed pilots from the u.s, it might be time to NOT give a ****e what the littlings think. i'm hopeful things haven't gotten that way yet in the secret enclaves of the pink palace where these outrageous ideas are conjured up.
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To all you "naysayers...(did I spell tht right?)...GF is determined and bending over backwards to upgrade from within...and implementing a "no DEC" policy....but we all know...never say never.....but to our credit....here in the gulf....who has taken the fewest DEC's last two years.....we have a wealth of qualified f.o.'s....and are capitalizing on that....laugh at us as you like..small fleet...blah blah..we have the best training system going.AQP..(look it up)...and a REAL seniority system...that IS being adhered to....bigger ain't better always is it....
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I did do multiple searches and after 90 minutes I posted the request. The latest info that I found was posted Dec 2007. I shouldn't have to explain why I should want more current info. Thanks, however, for taking time out of your very busy day to post a useless reply. You must be fun to to be around.