Those considering Emirates

[Alconguin Crusader]

If you saw my last post you would have known that leaving is no easy task because of what Emirates imposes on us. If Emirates would relieve me of the bonds (previous post) and give me all of my retirement fund (7 years) I would still have the added expense of paying a moving company to pack my things and ship them 7368 miles back home when I have barely paid for my move over to the sand. Thanks for the advice DD.
Ask the Drs. at the clinic about the rate of medication that is being issued. Don't take my word, ask ask and ask again. I have said that many time before.
The Wizoz must be a DEC and has a much different attitude about Emirates and Dubai then I do. The 3 airlines that I previously worked for all had the work rules I described in my post I am sorry that your 7 airlines did not. I would have thought that you would be happy for pilots that enjoy those conditions and try to get those items at your 7 airlines instead of trying to put us down. Is jealousy entering the equation?
So I can't adjust to Emirates and Dubai. I guess that is another crime. Dog breath most of the US pilots coming are the commuter types not from the majors and I will be the first to admit that it is a giant leap up in conditions for them. If they doubled my salary I would probably be adjusting a lot bettter or at least tolerate the treatment here at little easier.

[yoyonow]

Whaa….Whaaa my diaper’s full. Man up, you just learnt a valuable and expensive lesson in life. Do some research next time……

[Alconguin Crusader]

That is exactly what I am trying to prevent some other poor sap from doing. As for the money I am painfully aware of the lesson learned but thanks for the notion.

[mensaboy]

AC has been quite forthright in his views. He is simply trying to disseminate information that was either not available or he did not obtain prior to his decision to come to EK. I applaud his honesty and integrity. He makes NO EXCUSES and openly admits he thinks he made a bad decision. That is something not easily done by some, in my opinion.

I do not agree with all his assertions but the overall theme is accurate. For those who fire of the ''then just leave'' posts, try to consider HIS situation and not YOURS. He has explained at great length why leaving is so difficult and if you don't understand those reasons then you will not understand much of anything.

A post like AC's can be invaluable to those considering EK. They can choose to ignore it, deem it not pertinent to their circumstances or use it as a factor in their decision.

If I could suggest something to AC, try to make the best of things. Take the good, do your best to ignore the bad and bide your time. It is very true that when upgrade time rolls around, that will change a great deal for you. Not only does it change things at work, it will improve your quality of life as well. In addition to that, you will shortly thereafter be in a position to more readily leave if that is what you still want.

It is a rollercoaster ride for sure at EK. I am glad I came and glad I stayed but there were times I felt like you do now.

[Desert Driver]

Mensaboy

I do understand that it is difficult to leave but the initial post was full of inaccuracies and the reply was disparaging towards SAFAs Canadians or anyone that has not flown with US Air (his previous) later response stated that he would leave if the company paid 7 years of provident fund etc.
It all sounds like a petulant child that has not got the fortitude to do something positive.

DD

[6000PIC]

Thanks AC , I have been thinking about Emirates lately , but you can sit back , relax , and know that you`ve helped one pilot avoid making the decision to work for such an Airline , so you`ve helped at least one fellow pilot with your posting. I`m not that desparate. I don`t want to slag the flight crews for their choices , but nothing will change in that part of the world. Once GWB leaves and BHO takes over , you`ll have an America worth going back to. Good luck.

[Wings Of Fury]

Here is my solution if you really don't like the position you are in:
(if you are fed up with emirates treating you poorly)


1. You obviously have a good current type rating.
2. Find another job that you think has better Pay and Conditions
3. Just after you receive your pay check, hand in resignation (while on leave would work better)
4. Before anyone can arrest you, be on a flight out of there (a different airline)

Screw your bond, forget about outstanding money they owe you.
Not sure if this is possible there as I am based in another Middle Eastern country and airline, but before I ever take a job in these parts I make sure that I can do this at the drop of a hat. I have seen many pilots do it.
I know it gives us a bad name, and it’s a sad day when one has to do this, but one has to look after himself.
One condition which I think gives you the right to do this is when they seriously do not follow the contract you both signed,

So the big question is: Have they broken the contract you signed?

[Instant Hooligan]

To say that a bond is illegal in the US is just incorrect and misleading. Many companies employ the tactic in the US to retain staff to cover initial training costs. Some even require you to pay for that training. I have experienced it first hand(training bond) and have many friends in the US who also have.

[mensaboy]

DD,

I see your point after reading your latest.

(my quote thing never works, sorry)
''It must be quite easy for you to say if you don't like it just leave. Must be SA or Canadian or third tier airline aren't you?''

All I THOUGHT he was saying was that in some areas of the world aviation is in such a poor state of affairs, that EK seems wonderful by comparison. Perhaps I have misread that, but I did not find it to be disparaging.

I just find the ''THEN LEAVE'' sentiment to be wrong. It is not easy to leave especially if only here for a couple of years. Plus, I think leaving at that point, for most pilots, would be counterproductive from a career and financial POV. I can understand why some pilots feel trapped.

AC is pissed off and rightfully so in some cases. He made some valid observations and comments on things the company has done and continues to do to pilots. There are other points such as being followed by a security guard in a store that seem strange to me, but then again........ this is Dubai.


I honestly believe his post was meant to help INFORM those in similar circumstances. I do not believe he is whining. Considering his level of frustration and disappointment, I found his post quite objective actually. He feels he was duped !!


On a further note,
What really pisses ME off is that EK could quite easily be the best flying job on the planet. We should have pilots banging down the doors to come here. There are so many advantages being here, but for some reason management seems to do its best to counter those with stupid policies. I agree that most of the impetus is for cost savings, no matter how misguided they may be, but there is more to it than that. Their is an attitude on the part of management, not conducive to worker loyalty or happiness. And even though the FTL's and lack of pay for some work has the most affect on me, I still believe the DEC policy was the most unnecessary and foolish policy implemented so far.

[gj18457]

I found AC's post overall quite accurate and valid.And I feel sorry for him.He is a small percentage and obviously didn't get accurate enough advice.Most of his grievances wont affect many of the new guys as they have mostly come from LCC's and are generally on a better package.AC perhaps you can go and see HR and the clinic and tell them you really hate it and need to get home.Come up with some compassionate reason and I'm sure they will let you go without having to pay the bond.

[Gillegan]

While I thought that the comparisons with the working conditions of American major carriers a bit over the top (given the state of the American airline industry, I certainly wouldn't hold them up as a shining example to emulate), the initial premise - to do one's homework and know what you're getting yourself into is certainly valid. I can't tell you how many times in the last few months that I've been with a new guy (invariably from the U.S. and almost always from regionals) and as I relate some of the more onerous practices of our employer, just watch their jaws drop. They didn't have a clue.

It's not up to me to tell anyone whether they should be happy or not but anyone considering coming here owes it to themselves and their family to read the fine print and be aware of the negatives as well as the positives. If they then make an educated decision to come to Emirates, they probably will be happy and will certainly be easier to spend the night with somewhere over the Indian Ocean.

But then again, they are nice new 777's........

[JungleJett]

A.C. you do have some valid points but over all you sound like a cry baby.
Whining because you can't get vacation during the summer after a whole YEAR and a HALF seniority with the company.....wake up dude! Could you bid for week-ends off or 4th of July off in your First Class First World Airline whatever.....after less than 2 years seniority??
Whining that the summers are hot here? Now if you didn't know THAT before coming here, not only you sound like a cry baby but also like.....oh well I don't want to be disrespectful.
I've been flying in your First Class side of the pond too and believe me I did not spend a single week-end with my family for the first 4 years.
Bonds being illegal in the U.S?....Another big fat B.S. I know tons of Airlines in the U.S where you have to sign a bond.
So chill out dude, grab a cold one and consider your First Class world options....sitting home reserve, ready reserve or airport reserve for the next 4 years and guess what?....No week-ends off and you WILL be airport reserve on the 4th of July....
JJ out....

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Medicated wifes

Not a pilot - but former SMNC RF was forced by his spouse to leave DXB in '04. He returned to the UK to become MAS LHR. After some reality check, same wife insisted on a return to DXB at the first opportunity. RF is back in the NCC and we can't get the smile off his face.

[Raise or Fold]

A.C.
What fine airline did you come from in the USA?

[disconnected]

As aviation jobs go EK is not too bad.

I believe the issue is with the world economics and the piloting profession.

The days of a good salary for being a heavy jet captain are gone. Worldwide they earn less in real terms than before. The trend is down in almost every aviation job. In Dubai it is exaggerated because the Dirham devalues daily and the inflation climbs in exponential fashion.

The world economy is in a mess because of poor governance from western nations. The eastern nations who are getting rich as a result do not have the depth of experience to spread the wealth. Hence a few get obscenely rich while squeezing the rest to make their billions. Ultimately this will be their downfall as history has shown time and time again. However that is not likely to be in the near future.

EK pilots must realise that they are simply highly paid labour, with minimal rights and ever decreasing economic options. Its not going to change and will in fact get worse as inflation sorts out the rich from the poor and eradicates the middle. See Zimbabwe for an extreme example of this.

You are not protected from exchange rate movements. The ERP fails to do this. It helps but it is a flawed and outdated system. It hasn't succeeded has it?

Inflation is about to explode with the ever decreasing dirham and oil climbing a dollar a day. The fallout from this will take a few months to sink in making our pay rise irrelevant in context.

As for the provident fund. Well thats a joke. It has performed at a rate of 5.5% over the past 10 years. Inflation has taken good care of that. You might have enough to buy a small car at the end of 20 years. Of course if they had simply bought oil or gold with the contributions, we would all be millionaires after 10 years service.

That's a fact.

[middlepath]

THANKS TO AC AND OTHERS FOR CONTRIBUTING USEFUL INFORMATIONS FOR MY DECISION MAKING PROCESS. Slowly loosing interest of joining ek.

[typhoonpilot]

I do understand that it is difficult to leave but the initial post was full of inaccuracies and the reply was disparaging towards SAFAs Canadians or anyone that has not flown with US Air (his previous) later response stated that he would leave if the company paid 7 years of provident fund etc.
It all sounds like a petulant child that has not got the fortitude to do something positive.

AC didn't work for USAirways. He is busy trying to slam USAirways pilots in the North America forum. Using inaccurate assumptions in the process as well. Sense a pattern here?


Typhoonpilot

[picollo]

On a different note,

After meeting the requirements to upgrade, what does a FO have to do to qualify for command?

What does this Command Assessment program involve?

Thanks

[jb1191982]

Does anyone know how the quality of the working conditions and treatment of maintenance employees are for EK. Thinking about giving it a try. Thank you

[expat400]

You guys in this forum is quite funny. Over the last years I've read a couple of similar posts as AC:s. They are usually followed by the:

Good post!
Accurate!
Well done!
etc etc

But when an American posts it.....

Whoaaa!

Suddenly the majority screams out in defense of EK and Dubai!

And the guy isn't even a DEC....

Interesting.