EK pilots top 5 or 6 highest paid in the world
Ghostflyer,
They are not really fair comparisons without pointing out the tax rates.
For CX 17% plus tax on housing allowance which makes it higher.
BA 40% plus 5% NI.
Still think you should get a much greater payrise than seems to be the prophesied one.
They are not really fair comparisons without pointing out the tax rates.
For CX 17% plus tax on housing allowance which makes it higher.
BA 40% plus 5% NI.
Still think you should get a much greater payrise than seems to be the prophesied one.
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Theidler,
I agreed with everything you said, right up until you said education was free in the US/UK/OZ. When you are paying up to 50% in taxes, which in part goes to education, I would not consider it FREE by any means.
When one lives in one of the most expensive cities in the world, when the stated goal of management that EK will be the premier airline in the world, when everything here is supposed to be the biggest and or best......I would say that the pay should match the stated goals of those in charge. Fifth or sixth highest paid is pitiful in every respect. But I would say his estimate is way off. Maybe tenth highest. Even that's a stretch.
I agreed with everything you said, right up until you said education was free in the US/UK/OZ. When you are paying up to 50% in taxes, which in part goes to education, I would not consider it FREE by any means.
When one lives in one of the most expensive cities in the world, when the stated goal of management that EK will be the premier airline in the world, when everything here is supposed to be the biggest and or best......I would say that the pay should match the stated goals of those in charge. Fifth or sixth highest paid is pitiful in every respect. But I would say his estimate is way off. Maybe tenth highest. Even that's a stretch.
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Lets look at this realistically to see if EK make the top 5.
1. Between Gulf Air, Etihad and Qatar, EK is the lower paid of the 4 - That puts them at number 4 if the other 3 were the best paid in the world. Air Arabia is even catching up at a rapid rate!
2. An Air France FO earns more than an EK Capt and I'm sure they knock the socks off the other 4 - So they now stand at number 5.
3. Cathay, NCA, Easyjet, KLM, Ryanair, BA, Korean, Jade, Jet Airways, JAL, Dragon Air, Lufthansa....... earn more than EK
Where does that put them (there are others - USA carriers included), moving towards position 19 to make themselves attractive in the top 20.
What's that saying,"....keep......"
1. Between Gulf Air, Etihad and Qatar, EK is the lower paid of the 4 - That puts them at number 4 if the other 3 were the best paid in the world. Air Arabia is even catching up at a rapid rate!
2. An Air France FO earns more than an EK Capt and I'm sure they knock the socks off the other 4 - So they now stand at number 5.
3. Cathay, NCA, Easyjet, KLM, Ryanair, BA, Korean, Jade, Jet Airways, JAL, Dragon Air, Lufthansa....... earn more than EK
Where does that put them (there are others - USA carriers included), moving towards position 19 to make themselves attractive in the top 20.
What's that saying,"....keep......"
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3. Cathay, NCA, Easyjet, KLM, Ryanair, BA, Korean, Jade, Jet Airways, JAL, Dragon Air, Lufthansa....... earn more than EK
.... and the German Carriers LTU, CONDOR, even SWISS and SAS after re-structuring earnings is definitively better than that at EK ... we're in the middle to last third of the "First Class Airlines" - whcih have not "to hang in there in the gruelsome summer months" ...
.... and the German Carriers LTU, CONDOR, even SWISS and SAS after re-structuring earnings is definitively better than that at EK ... we're in the middle to last third of the "First Class Airlines" - whcih have not "to hang in there in the gruelsome summer months" ...
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2. An Air France FO earns more than an EK Capt and I'm sure they knock the socks off the other 4 - So they now stand at number 5.
Really ?
I would be very surprised if an Air France F/O earns more than an EK capt
Just a rough guess : I think an EK capt gets about 8000 Euro monthly
and an Air France F/O about half of that, a junior a bit below the 4000 and a senior somewhat above the 4000 Euro monthly
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I have no idea whether the figures are accurate, but the net pay according to PPJN leaves the EK captains trailing the senior FOs at AF.
http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/fact...x3awehehnwvps2
http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/fact...x3awehehnwvps2
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Wasn't it Dr Goebbles who said something along the lines of: "The bigger the lie, if you say it often enough, becomes accepted as the truth." They've been in cloud cooko land - and denial - for years now. It will be interesting to see how many of the people who had lunch at Rydges over the last few days 'walk the walk', even if the rumoured HUGE pay rise comes in as everyone hopes it will.
Basings, basings, basings. Eventually, they're going to happen. Blind Freddie can tell you that. So why in the world not now, when it might mean EK will keep some of its best and brightest, rather than after many of them have gone because someone with a wide body ego can't face facts?
Basings, basings, basings. Eventually, they're going to happen. Blind Freddie can tell you that. So why in the world not now, when it might mean EK will keep some of its best and brightest, rather than after many of them have gone because someone with a wide body ego can't face facts?
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Joetwo,
Expectation is the root of most evil, the rest comes from envy.
8000 Euros would be a Captain flying 800hrs/year at the 14 year point in EK. I would love to have the Air France pension, that is a serious wad.
I must admit when I joined EK I came for the cash and so did most people. Many even had 7/10 year plans that are disappearing off into the distance as the package degrades and that is why there are so many unhappy campers. The Nationals are fortunate enough to be in receipt of a large additional 'local allowance' that boosts their pay to correct for inflation. They also get a 2%/year pension deal from the government. If the expats were on that package, most would sign on for life with EK because their entire salary would be disposable and they would live like kings........uh sorry I just woke up.
Expectation is the root of most evil, the rest comes from envy.
8000 Euros would be a Captain flying 800hrs/year at the 14 year point in EK. I would love to have the Air France pension, that is a serious wad.
I must admit when I joined EK I came for the cash and so did most people. Many even had 7/10 year plans that are disappearing off into the distance as the package degrades and that is why there are so many unhappy campers. The Nationals are fortunate enough to be in receipt of a large additional 'local allowance' that boosts their pay to correct for inflation. They also get a 2%/year pension deal from the government. If the expats were on that package, most would sign on for life with EK because their entire salary would be disposable and they would live like kings........uh sorry I just woke up.
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The funniest thing is to see the guys that said, not longer ago that it's a bonus!!! even if it is 100 Dhs I'll take it!!! - now considering it part of their salaries just to calm down their egos.
Pitoss
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Joetwo,
Correct for a long-haul F/O ...
But not for year 1 F/O flying the A320 ...
And this only if you take into account the monthly paid salary and not the full EK package ...
And also only true because of the weak US dollar.
G.
Correct for a long-haul F/O ...
But not for year 1 F/O flying the A320 ...
And this only if you take into account the monthly paid salary and not the full EK package ...
And also only true because of the weak US dollar.
G.
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Whether its true or not, that will not be the case over the next year.
From CNN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaDWBs14_Pg
With oil prices going up and absolutely everything you will buy being flown, shipped and trucked into the UAE the inflation is only just beginning. Oil has gone up at least 25% in the last few months. The goods in the shop today were negotiated when the transport costs reflected under $100 a barrel and most commodities were at least 20% cheaper.
Expect a 25% increase over the next 6 months alone.
The pay review at Emirates will give great insight into the viability of a move here. It will show how much the salary might decline over the next year in terms of purchasing power.
From CNN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaDWBs14_Pg
With oil prices going up and absolutely everything you will buy being flown, shipped and trucked into the UAE the inflation is only just beginning. Oil has gone up at least 25% in the last few months. The goods in the shop today were negotiated when the transport costs reflected under $100 a barrel and most commodities were at least 20% cheaper.
Expect a 25% increase over the next 6 months alone.
The pay review at Emirates will give great insight into the viability of a move here. It will show how much the salary might decline over the next year in terms of purchasing power.
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pay - again
Not sure where we sit in the global pecking order but I have said this before and will say it again ref salary issues.
As a 5 year- line only- captain in the company for almost 9 years my last 12 months payslips came to about 820 000 dhs including every thing I get from company (accommodation/ERP ) etc. I could include the 12 % prov fund which after 9 years stands at about 160 000 USD (not enough to retire on but hey pays off the mortgage I have in Dubai (and yes I have bought here so am in front due to that opportunity by several 000's of dhs so very lucky)
So the point I make is that overall the financial returns from coming to EK - have been significant in my case. But you will all be different depending on your circumstances.
I would expect that with the 12 % basic rise announced today and the increase in other allowances next month, and 14 weeks PS I will push over a million dhs for the next 12 month period.
And I got a free 777 endorsement from them last year - and have flown just on 400 hours since July last year on the Boeing. (So not much overtime for me to add in at all) And I am a LINE captain...
So am I happy or not? - well I also went to Rydges plaza to see what Voz had to say and I can most certainly comfirm that 175KAUD plus a bit of super and a few other intangibles ( oh and less tax @ up to 42 cents in the dollar or so) is not going to be enough to make me give it up in a hurry to commute or live in Sydney for the privilege- and 1000 hours per annum too!
But think they will be great for the right guys to join up.
I Agree with all the inflation etc arguments but that is the reason the rental returns are over 10% net in DXB - if you can't beat them - join them!
Not trying to stick up for the claims about where we fit into the global pay scheme but personally I don't think the company are doing a bad job - at least in my case... oh ...and I am bouncing off 35 day recency the last three months due to extra leave they keep giving etc etc..
Just trying to balance the spleen venting arguments a little - hope they don't try to make me go to the office!!
Woodj
As a 5 year- line only- captain in the company for almost 9 years my last 12 months payslips came to about 820 000 dhs including every thing I get from company (accommodation/ERP ) etc. I could include the 12 % prov fund which after 9 years stands at about 160 000 USD (not enough to retire on but hey pays off the mortgage I have in Dubai (and yes I have bought here so am in front due to that opportunity by several 000's of dhs so very lucky)
So the point I make is that overall the financial returns from coming to EK - have been significant in my case. But you will all be different depending on your circumstances.
I would expect that with the 12 % basic rise announced today and the increase in other allowances next month, and 14 weeks PS I will push over a million dhs for the next 12 month period.
And I got a free 777 endorsement from them last year - and have flown just on 400 hours since July last year on the Boeing. (So not much overtime for me to add in at all) And I am a LINE captain...
So am I happy or not? - well I also went to Rydges plaza to see what Voz had to say and I can most certainly comfirm that 175KAUD plus a bit of super and a few other intangibles ( oh and less tax @ up to 42 cents in the dollar or so) is not going to be enough to make me give it up in a hurry to commute or live in Sydney for the privilege- and 1000 hours per annum too!
But think they will be great for the right guys to join up.
I Agree with all the inflation etc arguments but that is the reason the rental returns are over 10% net in DXB - if you can't beat them - join them!
Not trying to stick up for the claims about where we fit into the global pay scheme but personally I don't think the company are doing a bad job - at least in my case... oh ...and I am bouncing off 35 day recency the last three months due to extra leave they keep giving etc etc..
Just trying to balance the spleen venting arguments a little - hope they don't try to make me go to the office!!
Woodj
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The pay review is now out.
All said about another 12%. Prices still rising here at alarming levels. Every trip to the supermarket reveals another product up by 10-30%. And thats only since the last rises at the beginning of the year.
Oil problem does not seem to be going away - $133 per barrel. Over 40% this year alone. And its not simply speculation - China and India are using more. $200 per barrel this year is firmly in the sights.
The knock on from this is that prices in the UAE will climb at a rate never witnessed before.
12% is going backwards. It could have been worse, I agree but that doesn't make it good.
Another year of salary attrition to look forward to. Only this time much worse than ever before.
All said about another 12%. Prices still rising here at alarming levels. Every trip to the supermarket reveals another product up by 10-30%. And thats only since the last rises at the beginning of the year.
Oil problem does not seem to be going away - $133 per barrel. Over 40% this year alone. And its not simply speculation - China and India are using more. $200 per barrel this year is firmly in the sights.
The knock on from this is that prices in the UAE will climb at a rate never witnessed before.
12% is going backwards. It could have been worse, I agree but that doesn't make it good.
Another year of salary attrition to look forward to. Only this time much worse than ever before.
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Fuel prices account for 36% of inflation in UAE economy
Economic and property analysts have been proposing measures to combat the rise in inflation, the most recent of these proposals was the call for the UAE Ministry of Economy to put out an index that would calculate the inflation rate in a move to arrest spiraling inflation.
This proposal is under study, and some sources have revealed that, in a move unprecedented in the world, a survey system will be established to measure the inflation rate in the country every four months.
This revelation says a lot about what is to come. Having to calculate inflation every 4 months indicates that its out of control and they will have to seriously watch it to avoid civil unrest from the lower paid.
This is not a good place to take up employment at the moment. Negotiated salaries will be outdated before the employee begins work.
Its going to be bad, real bad.....
Economic and property analysts have been proposing measures to combat the rise in inflation, the most recent of these proposals was the call for the UAE Ministry of Economy to put out an index that would calculate the inflation rate in a move to arrest spiraling inflation.
This proposal is under study, and some sources have revealed that, in a move unprecedented in the world, a survey system will be established to measure the inflation rate in the country every four months.
This revelation says a lot about what is to come. Having to calculate inflation every 4 months indicates that its out of control and they will have to seriously watch it to avoid civil unrest from the lower paid.
This is not a good place to take up employment at the moment. Negotiated salaries will be outdated before the employee begins work.
Its going to be bad, real bad.....
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For those now predicting oil at $200 a barrel by the end of the year, see post #13, dated 5th April here: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ghlight=barrel For those too lazy to click on the link:
The way things are going, it looks distressingly like I'm in there with a very good chance of being right.
Sadly, I think I'd almost be as safe in predicting the USD and the AUD will be at parity by Jan 1st 09. I heard today that a group of Australian pilots in Dubai are in the latter stages of planning for a "parity party" when it happens.
(I peredict) Oil at USD 150 a barrel by September 30th 2008.
Sadly, I think I'd almost be as safe in predicting the USD and the AUD will be at parity by Jan 1st 09. I heard today that a group of Australian pilots in Dubai are in the latter stages of planning for a "parity party" when it happens.
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The fallout from these figures will be massive. The price of oil doesn't double without serious pain.
Parity on the AUD - Sure. And then beyond. 1.20 is the revised prediction.
Pity we don't have a meaningful ERP system.
Parity on the AUD - Sure. And then beyond. 1.20 is the revised prediction.
Pity we don't have a meaningful ERP system.
