**Pilot Shortage in the Middle East??**
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dunesville
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a pilot shortage looming everywhere, not just the ME.
Is it good news? Not yet. Poaching will increase and many experienced expats will see a window of opportunity to either work nearer home or earn more money. Experience levels of those joining, who have benefitted from the increased demand, has decreased from previous levels. Attrition rates will increase and when either an accident or aircraft get parked something may happen to address the many issues ignored for years by arrogant, complaisant managements.
It's not new. Airlines who have attempted to grow without adequate investment in their staff and infrastructure soon stall. In the long run it will cost them more to react eventually than to proact now.
Airlines are a global phenomena and airlines in the ME are not isolated and have to compete with other airlines for pilots. In fact the ME is a prime source of experienced crews on modern aircraft types for other airlines who themselves have big expansion plans.
There will be a marked difference in the expansion plans in the ME and the expansion realities.
Is it good news? Not yet. Poaching will increase and many experienced expats will see a window of opportunity to either work nearer home or earn more money. Experience levels of those joining, who have benefitted from the increased demand, has decreased from previous levels. Attrition rates will increase and when either an accident or aircraft get parked something may happen to address the many issues ignored for years by arrogant, complaisant managements.
It's not new. Airlines who have attempted to grow without adequate investment in their staff and infrastructure soon stall. In the long run it will cost them more to react eventually than to proact now.
Airlines are a global phenomena and airlines in the ME are not isolated and have to compete with other airlines for pilots. In fact the ME is a prime source of experienced crews on modern aircraft types for other airlines who themselves have big expansion plans.
There will be a marked difference in the expansion plans in the ME and the expansion realities.
Last edited by Marooned; 27th Mar 2008 at 21:20.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Middle East
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes your right, includes housing, not bad if your single 
Marooned, very true no one can predict the future, sure is great to discuss it. I didn't think I would be were I am 3 years ago, one thing for sure is it happened a hell of a lot quicker than it would have 10 years ago. does that make sense?
Marooned, very true no one can predict the future, sure is great to discuss it. I didn't think I would be were I am 3 years ago, one thing for sure is it happened a hell of a lot quicker than it would have 10 years ago. does that make sense?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no pilot shortage, Please don't start another thread saying we need pilots. The shortage is for Flight instructors and Training captains. Thats it.
Plenty of pilots out there, that is still looking for a job.
Plenty of pilots out there, that is still looking for a job.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Glorious nation of Kazakhstan.....great success!!!
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A320PLT,
Good guess, but it's Delicate Sound of Thunder....which contains my flight training theme tune......this also makes me giggle.
Good to see a *****ER with taste.
Back to the thread: Basic economics makes my request for that amount of Gorillas unviable as A) they actually want to make a heathy profit and B) there will ALWAYS be someone willing to work for the wages they are offering.
Good night all
Good guess, but it's Delicate Sound of Thunder....which contains my flight training theme tune......this also makes me giggle.
Good to see a *****ER with taste.
Back to the thread: Basic economics makes my request for that amount of Gorillas unviable as A) they actually want to make a heathy profit and B) there will ALWAYS be someone willing to work for the wages they are offering.
Good night all
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the Matrix
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bluelearjetdriver,
Yeah I'm a Floyd person. Years ago I saw a Laser show with the music being Floyd Darkside of the moon. I know a few of the tunes.
The piper at the gates of dawn, Soundtrack from the film 'More', A saucerful of secrets, Ummagumma, The best of Pink Floyd,
Atom heart mother
Relics
Meddle
Obscured by clouds
Dark side of the moon
Purple simon moves the pink harum
Picnic, a breath of fresh air
Soundtrack from the film Zabriskie Point
Wish you were here
Animals
The Wall
A collection of great dance songs
The final cut
Pink Floyd works
A momentary Lapse of reason
Delicate Sound of Thunder
Shine on (dutch)
Shine on
The Division Bell
Pulse
Echoes
A320PLT
Yeah I'm a Floyd person. Years ago I saw a Laser show with the music being Floyd Darkside of the moon. I know a few of the tunes.
The piper at the gates of dawn, Soundtrack from the film 'More', A saucerful of secrets, Ummagumma, The best of Pink Floyd,
Atom heart mother
Relics
Meddle
Obscured by clouds
Dark side of the moon
Purple simon moves the pink harum
Picnic, a breath of fresh air
Soundtrack from the film Zabriskie Point
Wish you were here
Animals
The Wall
A collection of great dance songs
The final cut
Pink Floyd works
A momentary Lapse of reason
Delicate Sound of Thunder
Shine on (dutch)
Shine on
The Division Bell
Pulse
Echoes
A320PLT
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: WGS 84
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no pilot shortage, Please don't start another thread saying we need pilots. The shortage is for Flight instructors and Training captains. Thats it.
Plenty of pilots out there, that is still looking for a job.
Plenty of pilots out there, that is still looking for a job.
There are a lot of experienced pilots looking for a job everywhere. And don't tell me EK really needs 4000 H / 2000 heavy jet FOs, while cadets are allowed to do the job !
You can find a lot of turboprop/light jets pilots with many thousands hours of multi-crew experience that would perfectly match with a FO position.
There is no worldwide shortage since many companies are still requiring type rated pilots. In case of shortage they wouldn't mind to pay for the ratings.
If there was such a shortage and that salaries and conditions were that bad in the UAE, I don't think people would still be interested to apply, especially with the high requirements that are in force.
It's been months that some of you are complaining, how come didn't you already get a better job in your homeland if there is such a general shortage ?
The problem is not to find guys who knows how to drive a plane, it is to train them to the specific companies' procedures since this is limited by the size of the companies' training departments. I fully agree with the need of instructors within companies. You don't need to hire astronauts to put a pilot in an airbus' right seat.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Redistributing SLF
Age: 65
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problem is, everyone wants to operate "the finest airline in the sky" (whichever that one is...) on a shoestring budget.
I was set to apply at EK but the pay v. inflation stopped me cold--the bottom line IS the bottom line.
You want pilots who can occupy the LHS on the DXB-IAH flight after three years with the company? YOU'VE GOT TO PAY THE TOLL! (or 'troll' in my case.
) TC
I was set to apply at EK but the pay v. inflation stopped me cold--the bottom line IS the bottom line.
You want pilots who can occupy the LHS on the DXB-IAH flight after three years with the company? YOU'VE GOT TO PAY THE TOLL! (or 'troll' in my case.
) TC
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UAE & Africa
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wonder who commissioned the report?
There is plenty of evidence - I've just had a good friend close his (small) flight school as he has just lost his last two instructors. Just spoken to an ACMI operator flying Beech 1900s and he was amazed at having a job offer turned down by a 230-hour pilot. There's a 200-cadet airline casting around at the moment trying to find a flight school with enough capacity - they have just been turned down by one large training organisation I know well.
There is plenty of evidence - I've just had a good friend close his (small) flight school as he has just lost his last two instructors. Just spoken to an ACMI operator flying Beech 1900s and he was amazed at having a job offer turned down by a 230-hour pilot. There's a 200-cadet airline casting around at the moment trying to find a flight school with enough capacity - they have just been turned down by one large training organisation I know well.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dunesville
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The shortage is already hitting the flight schools as instructors move on without being replaced by their students who are also getting offers. Meanwhile at the other end we are over two years into the 60-65 extension which will see many, many retirements within the next few years.
Supply is cut off from the bottom + attrition at the top = a big shortage.
Token cadet schemes which are too few and too late will not go near to supplying the demand. Those that have been implemented, Air France as an example, are finding that not all from the schemes are getting through final selection... hence the new recruitment surge.
The result is a massive pilot shortage.
Those who are there will work harder, longer hours. Experience levels are being reduced, fatigue increased and the ultimate loser will be safety...
Supply is cut off from the bottom + attrition at the top = a big shortage.
Token cadet schemes which are too few and too late will not go near to supplying the demand. Those that have been implemented, Air France as an example, are finding that not all from the schemes are getting through final selection... hence the new recruitment surge.
The result is a massive pilot shortage.
Those who are there will work harder, longer hours. Experience levels are being reduced, fatigue increased and the ultimate loser will be safety...
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: spain
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilot Shortage
I guess who ever keep talking about their is enough pilots and their is
no pilot shortage is either management or they have no clue of what
is going on in the aviation world.
All airlines in Africa middle east, Gulf, India, China, Korea, Japan......
are very short of experienced pilots.
Yes airlines can have a proper training program for new cadets, but
to acquire experience, they need time, lots of time, and with the expansion
that all of these airlines are planning for, I think the only way is to buy experience, so the better the contract and work conditions, the better
the chances of acquiring experienced pilots.
Pilot shortage is real, and will not get better any time soon. Yes airlines
are still managing, but they are all bleeding their experienced pilots
and unless they improve their work conditions they will have to ground
airplanes, and cancel flights.
no pilot shortage is either management or they have no clue of what
is going on in the aviation world.
All airlines in Africa middle east, Gulf, India, China, Korea, Japan......
are very short of experienced pilots.
Yes airlines can have a proper training program for new cadets, but
to acquire experience, they need time, lots of time, and with the expansion
that all of these airlines are planning for, I think the only way is to buy experience, so the better the contract and work conditions, the better
the chances of acquiring experienced pilots.
Pilot shortage is real, and will not get better any time soon. Yes airlines
are still managing, but they are all bleeding their experienced pilots
and unless they improve their work conditions they will have to ground
airplanes, and cancel flights.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: nowhere
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sarah please answer
Dear sarah,
do you really think that in a mickey mouse country like UAE you will be allowed to write what reality is?????
Do you really think that they will let you write that emirates for examples makes:
pairing beyond any safety rules like the Huston;
or that we fly during the night to the subcontinent with pairing beyond the flight time limitations just because they use exemptions (that means they do whatever they want);
or pairing like the syd-chc or mel-auk where you feel like a ghost for 5 days;
or that they make you fly beyond the monthly legal limits only because they invented the rule that if you are not seated in the cockpit it does not count as flying time
So please Sarah, if you are just curious and the next time you have to fly you will fly KLM or AirFrance instead of Ek or EY ok, but don't say to us that you will write an article about what we discuss here unless you are willing to move to a different country .........
do you really think that in a mickey mouse country like UAE you will be allowed to write what reality is?????
Do you really think that they will let you write that emirates for examples makes:
pairing beyond any safety rules like the Huston;
or that we fly during the night to the subcontinent with pairing beyond the flight time limitations just because they use exemptions (that means they do whatever they want);
or pairing like the syd-chc or mel-auk where you feel like a ghost for 5 days;
or that they make you fly beyond the monthly legal limits only because they invented the rule that if you are not seated in the cockpit it does not count as flying time
So please Sarah, if you are just curious and the next time you have to fly you will fly KLM or AirFrance instead of Ek or EY ok, but don't say to us that you will write an article about what we discuss here unless you are willing to move to a different country .........
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: WGS 84
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess who ever keep talking about their is enough pilots and their is
no pilot shortage is either management or they have no clue of what
is going on in the aviation world.
no pilot shortage is either management or they have no clue of what
is going on in the aviation world.
It's over 11 years I'm flying commercial multicrew helicopters and turboprops, and I can tell you it's not that easy to find job, either in the ME or even in Europe. Within the last two months I've sent about 100 CVs all over Europe and GCCs, and still didn't get any interview. It would probably be different if I had a A320 type rating (even with a little 500TT), which means the shortage is not on experienced pilots,but on cost saving ones.
Of course instructors are getting better jobs, and some school can hardly find the right people on time. It doesn't mean there's a shortage, it just means the market is unfreezing. The situation was so bad over the last 10 years that now some can start breathing. It's not a shortage, it's just an improvement. For years people couldn't afford to choose and they had to get the first position where they could be hired. Today it's different, and it's a good thing.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You watch the applications pile up on your desk if you introduce basings.
They don't even need to be basings. Just let people bid for a block where the pairings are written such that they leave the flight at the nominated port and have their days off and another pilot picks up the pairing.
It's a real pity they're losing KP, (who, by the way, told me himself that he would have stayed if they'd let him do what I've just suggested above). He could probably write a program overnight to show them how easy it would be to organise, and maybe even how much money they'd save.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pilot shortage
I agree with sispanys ria!
you guys that talk about pilot shortage, and think there are no pilots out there has never applied for any jobs and don't know what you are talking about. My current contract goes out with my currrent company in 3 months and I have been applying for about 28-30 jobs out there. So far, I had two phone calls, one from Europe (jet alliance) and as soon as they found out that i dont have JAA they said good bye. The other phone interview was from a hawker position in India and they have been very slow with the hiring process, so I don't think I want to work for a company that not taking the interview serious. I even applied to the Qatar airways cadet program( I'm 26 years old). Unfortunatly, I didn't get in because I was over qualified. That's what the human resources told me, they where looking for pilots with around 500 tt, not pilots with more than 2000 tt and some turbin time. I have been thinking to take some time off and study the JAA through bristol and try the JAA land (I have EU citizenship).
I might have some luck there.
Please, don't take me as a negative person, but it is hard to find a job out there as a first officer. Plenty of jobs for pilots with time on type and captains, but not for me!!!!!
but I will keep trying, and good luck with all you guys that are trying as well!!!
you guys that talk about pilot shortage, and think there are no pilots out there has never applied for any jobs and don't know what you are talking about. My current contract goes out with my currrent company in 3 months and I have been applying for about 28-30 jobs out there. So far, I had two phone calls, one from Europe (jet alliance) and as soon as they found out that i dont have JAA they said good bye. The other phone interview was from a hawker position in India and they have been very slow with the hiring process, so I don't think I want to work for a company that not taking the interview serious. I even applied to the Qatar airways cadet program( I'm 26 years old). Unfortunatly, I didn't get in because I was over qualified. That's what the human resources told me, they where looking for pilots with around 500 tt, not pilots with more than 2000 tt and some turbin time. I have been thinking to take some time off and study the JAA through bristol and try the JAA land (I have EU citizenship).
I might have some luck there.
Please, don't take me as a negative person, but it is hard to find a job out there as a first officer. Plenty of jobs for pilots with time on type and captains, but not for me!!!!!
but I will keep trying, and good luck with all you guys that are trying as well!!!
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pilot shortage
And one more thing,,,If you guys don't belive what I have been telleing you!!!!!!!! Please take a look at African forum and "willing to work in Africa thread" and you will see how many pilots out there that are willing to work for free!!!!!!!!! it is crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!
So pilot shortage = flight instructors and training captains
Good luck to all
So pilot shortage = flight instructors and training captains
Good luck to all
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dubai
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BBC Middle East Business Report
BBC TV program Middle East Business Report are advertising that they will be doing a story next week on how the Pilot Shortage will affect Airlines in the region