Like to stop us in our tracks? Don't even think about it.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Aeroplane Shaped Building
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like to stop us in our tracks? Don't even think about it.
Attention Emirates Pilots.
A suitable period of time has lapsed for us now to ponder the effects of our latest arbitrary change to your working conditions and hence enjoyment of life, family and indeed work itself.
These negative effects (to us) can be summed up with one word: Zero.
These negative effects (to you) can be summed up with one word: Immense.
These positive effects (to us) can be summed up with one word: Immense.
These positive effects (to you) can be summed up with one word: Zero.
We, your executive management and undisputed superiors, notice with amusement the infantile and impotent ravings posted on the anonymous aircrew forum, PPRUNE. We note with interest how the posts that still elicit by far the most responses are from those wishing to join our incredibly marketed company.
Your empty threats of resignation are exactly that. We welcome any attempt at mass use of the button ‘2’. A swift and rapid response from us randomly targeting individuals will immediately put an end to your weak attempts at forcing change and reasonable behaviour upon us. You do not need to ask what our response would be. You know us well enough by now. Suffice to say you can say goodbye to your villa and children’s education.
Never forget the golden rule. He who has the gold, makes the rules. And gold, we have in obscene abundance.
The arbitrary and non-negotiated change to the rostering system is only the beginning. Restricting your days off to 14 per roster is neither restrictive nor flexible enough for us. You can expect further adjustments in the form of more artificial restraints programmed into the rostering/bid system. You will be restricted to a maximum of six days off in a row. You can expect AD days, Reserves or Sim Support duties to be inserted amongst any string of days off that exceed the limit of six. Sim Supports will be particularly useful, as they do not accrue any credit time so we can use you for free even when you are at the legal hours limit. Which in any event we are working hard to change.
Your ULR flights with associated duty/rest periods will continue to be finely tuned. We can’t control our salivating when we think of just how cheap you are becoming per labour unit. Pavlov had nothing on us.
In case you are thinking of reporting our transgressions to any authority, be warned. Retribution will be swift. We will not tolerate the outside world knowing our business practices.
With this in mind, under no circumstances will we tolerate you contacting the FAA safety hot line with your concerns regarding our industry leading ULR flight/duty time pairings. We will not accept any outsider becoming aware of just how fatigued our crews are. It is not their business that you can change time zones of up to 16 hours twice or more per month with minimal rest. It is not their concern that we now ignore our own FOM and illegally consider a ‘flight’ to be a ‘pairing’. Therefore, we will not tolerate any contact to:
24-Hour Safety Hotline at (800) 255-1111 or email [email protected]
If you feel the FAA does not act swiftly enough, similarly we will visit rapid and immediate action on anyone who feels the UK CAA should be made aware of our practices at:
Safety Regulation Group
Civil Aviation Authority
Aviation House
Gatwick Airport South
West Sussex RH6 0YR
Telephone: 01293 567171
Fax: 01293 573940
The Australian Department would probably be very interested to hear how fatigued the Airbus pilots can be with their minimum layovers on the NZ pairings, coupled with all night flights to Japan with no regard to rest or time zone changes. Under no circumstances contact CASA at:
Chief Executive Officer Bruce Byron
Email: [email protected]
Phone: + 61 131 757
Fax: +61 2 6217 1444
Luckily for us, Dr. I. H. now works for the CASA, and since we bullied him into agreeing to our superbly efficient pairings, he would now look pretty silly if he were to take your complaints seriously.
We win again.
Now read the title of the post again. You have been warned.
Thank you. Keep up the hard work. You have no option.
EK Management
A suitable period of time has lapsed for us now to ponder the effects of our latest arbitrary change to your working conditions and hence enjoyment of life, family and indeed work itself.
These negative effects (to us) can be summed up with one word: Zero.
These negative effects (to you) can be summed up with one word: Immense.
These positive effects (to us) can be summed up with one word: Immense.
These positive effects (to you) can be summed up with one word: Zero.
We, your executive management and undisputed superiors, notice with amusement the infantile and impotent ravings posted on the anonymous aircrew forum, PPRUNE. We note with interest how the posts that still elicit by far the most responses are from those wishing to join our incredibly marketed company.
Your empty threats of resignation are exactly that. We welcome any attempt at mass use of the button ‘2’. A swift and rapid response from us randomly targeting individuals will immediately put an end to your weak attempts at forcing change and reasonable behaviour upon us. You do not need to ask what our response would be. You know us well enough by now. Suffice to say you can say goodbye to your villa and children’s education.
Never forget the golden rule. He who has the gold, makes the rules. And gold, we have in obscene abundance.
The arbitrary and non-negotiated change to the rostering system is only the beginning. Restricting your days off to 14 per roster is neither restrictive nor flexible enough for us. You can expect further adjustments in the form of more artificial restraints programmed into the rostering/bid system. You will be restricted to a maximum of six days off in a row. You can expect AD days, Reserves or Sim Support duties to be inserted amongst any string of days off that exceed the limit of six. Sim Supports will be particularly useful, as they do not accrue any credit time so we can use you for free even when you are at the legal hours limit. Which in any event we are working hard to change.
Your ULR flights with associated duty/rest periods will continue to be finely tuned. We can’t control our salivating when we think of just how cheap you are becoming per labour unit. Pavlov had nothing on us.
In case you are thinking of reporting our transgressions to any authority, be warned. Retribution will be swift. We will not tolerate the outside world knowing our business practices.
With this in mind, under no circumstances will we tolerate you contacting the FAA safety hot line with your concerns regarding our industry leading ULR flight/duty time pairings. We will not accept any outsider becoming aware of just how fatigued our crews are. It is not their business that you can change time zones of up to 16 hours twice or more per month with minimal rest. It is not their concern that we now ignore our own FOM and illegally consider a ‘flight’ to be a ‘pairing’. Therefore, we will not tolerate any contact to:
24-Hour Safety Hotline at (800) 255-1111 or email [email protected]
If you feel the FAA does not act swiftly enough, similarly we will visit rapid and immediate action on anyone who feels the UK CAA should be made aware of our practices at:
Safety Regulation Group
Civil Aviation Authority
Aviation House
Gatwick Airport South
West Sussex RH6 0YR
Telephone: 01293 567171
Fax: 01293 573940
The Australian Department would probably be very interested to hear how fatigued the Airbus pilots can be with their minimum layovers on the NZ pairings, coupled with all night flights to Japan with no regard to rest or time zone changes. Under no circumstances contact CASA at:
Chief Executive Officer Bruce Byron
Email: [email protected]
Phone: + 61 131 757
Fax: +61 2 6217 1444
Luckily for us, Dr. I. H. now works for the CASA, and since we bullied him into agreeing to our superbly efficient pairings, he would now look pretty silly if he were to take your complaints seriously.
We win again.
Now read the title of the post again. You have been warned.
Thank you. Keep up the hard work. You have no option.
EK Management
This is so factual that it could actually be from the management.
I hear there is talk of all pilots ex dubai going sick on good friday so there will be no flights out of DXB that day. Must have been food poisoning fron the fish on good friday. Nobody must work this day..
Also from now on there is a recruitment ban to all outsiders so dont join for at least one year there will still be plenty of jobs but your rewards may be sweeter.
Please do not apply to EK till 2010.
I know its hard to look past the glossy finish but this company is diseased and your life will be hell if something isnt done soon.
I hear there is talk of all pilots ex dubai going sick on good friday so there will be no flights out of DXB that day. Must have been food poisoning fron the fish on good friday. Nobody must work this day..
Also from now on there is a recruitment ban to all outsiders so dont join for at least one year there will still be plenty of jobs but your rewards may be sweeter.
Please do not apply to EK till 2010.
I know its hard to look past the glossy finish but this company is diseased and your life will be hell if something isnt done soon.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: AUSTRALIA - CHINA STHN
Age: 59
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Grounding 777's
Just a silly thought, but I have lots of them...
By the way , I reckon we could all go on a holiday at least on the 777 fleet if the travelling public , the regulators, and the politicians realised that all this hullaballoo about the new 787 being hardened against the IFE hacking into the essential flight computers pales to insignificance cf below:
If the nasty terrorist elements they are trying to protect us against were told that access to the electronics bay on the 777 was via a totally unlocked and non secure hatch which they all walk over when coming thru L1.
Don't need any tools - just open it up climb in and start undoing cannon plugs...you can guess the result..
any other bright boys worked that out too?? -
I have only been on the jet 6 months and if this became general knowledge I reckon it might create some holiday time while they mod-ed the E+I bay.
By the way it lives behind the flight deck door on the bus so not an issue...
Funny how the land that invented the 777 and is threatened the most by the
radicals of the world makes us take our shoes off and gives old ladies with too much perfume a hard time at check in but the ENTIRE B777 fleet world wide is vulnerable...
Maybe management should think about that little issue...?
If anyone feels brave enough and aggrieved enough send the idea to CASA/GCAA/FAA and see what happens!!
saves dialing '2'
woodja
By the way , I reckon we could all go on a holiday at least on the 777 fleet if the travelling public , the regulators, and the politicians realised that all this hullaballoo about the new 787 being hardened against the IFE hacking into the essential flight computers pales to insignificance cf below:
If the nasty terrorist elements they are trying to protect us against were told that access to the electronics bay on the 777 was via a totally unlocked and non secure hatch which they all walk over when coming thru L1.
Don't need any tools - just open it up climb in and start undoing cannon plugs...you can guess the result..
any other bright boys worked that out too?? -
I have only been on the jet 6 months and if this became general knowledge I reckon it might create some holiday time while they mod-ed the E+I bay.
By the way it lives behind the flight deck door on the bus so not an issue...
Funny how the land that invented the 777 and is threatened the most by the
radicals of the world makes us take our shoes off and gives old ladies with too much perfume a hard time at check in but the ENTIRE B777 fleet world wide is vulnerable...
Maybe management should think about that little issue...?
If anyone feels brave enough and aggrieved enough send the idea to CASA/GCAA/FAA and see what happens!!
saves dialing '2'
woodja
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 63
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ek Management
Outstanding post.
Unfortunately so close to the truth its scary.
An external safety audit from your mentioned bodies would yield interesting results.
Well done
Unfortunately so close to the truth its scary.
An external safety audit from your mentioned bodies would yield interesting results.
Well done
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Germany
Age: 48
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
excuse the intrusion into, what is in essence none of my business! I dont fly for Emirates... but! This sounds very familiar from a UAE company. They abide by only the rules they legaly NEED to out there and it seems that Emirates is no exception.
Yes I worked for two years in Dubai in a different sector and yes I have a very close 'local' freind (UAE national) who works for said Airline... and his stories are equally as scathing!
My advise like so many others, if you cant take the heat, get out of the fire! Excuse the pun.
Yes I worked for two years in Dubai in a different sector and yes I have a very close 'local' freind (UAE national) who works for said Airline... and his stories are equally as scathing!
My advise like so many others, if you cant take the heat, get out of the fire! Excuse the pun.
, yep, that'll keep 'em away alright...
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 55
Posts: 2,832
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice post - but I do believe sim support is 3:30 credit now because lot's of sim supporters were pressing '2'.... Sorry 411a, management doesn't always win
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: WGS 84
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My advise like so many others, if you cant take the heat, get out of the fire! Excuse the pun.
EK is UAE based, what does the UK or Australian administrations have to do with it ?
If I'm not happy with some countries' working conditions, I'd better stay where I'm fine...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Raincoast
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
very good post once again EK manglement! Now I know what those strikin' hollywood writers are up against in freelance creative writin'. Yer good!
I detect the rampin' up of emotional tone on this here thread an' thought I'd spit on the dog's head and throw this down for ruminatin'... before the shootin' starts...
Once apon a time I operated to 'nother continent and we had an intrepid an' clever passenger sneak hisself in to the now termed CRC for a nap... the locking keypad didn't work. After about 4 hours it it became apparent...
to cut a long tale short, at destination the guy got ta have a one way question 'n answer session with the boys 'n blue and they let 'm go. He wasn't disruptive, just a smart aleck.
But I reckoned I could see some potential for a more serious outcome to this kinda thing (there's an axe down there) and dutifully reported ma concerns ta the company and they jist ignored me and ma fellow pilots. All 4 of us...
As y'all know the old airplanes now have a couple different kindsa doors installed, with a coupla different keypads, usually neither work...
Our cabin crew, being the alert highly trained individuals they are... might just not see somebody sneakin' in ta that there CRC and we might just have some trouble on our hands...
You can lead a manager to money, but ya cain't make 'em think...
It's cheaper ta pay fer dead folks 'n it is ta build a better mousetrap...
Happy Contrails
k-o-t-s
I detect the rampin' up of emotional tone on this here thread an' thought I'd spit on the dog's head and throw this down for ruminatin'... before the shootin' starts...
Once apon a time I operated to 'nother continent and we had an intrepid an' clever passenger sneak hisself in to the now termed CRC for a nap... the locking keypad didn't work. After about 4 hours it it became apparent...
to cut a long tale short, at destination the guy got ta have a one way question 'n answer session with the boys 'n blue and they let 'm go. He wasn't disruptive, just a smart aleck.
But I reckoned I could see some potential for a more serious outcome to this kinda thing (there's an axe down there) and dutifully reported ma concerns ta the company and they jist ignored me and ma fellow pilots. All 4 of us...
As y'all know the old airplanes now have a couple different kindsa doors installed, with a coupla different keypads, usually neither work...
Our cabin crew, being the alert highly trained individuals they are... might just not see somebody sneakin' in ta that there CRC and we might just have some trouble on our hands...
You can lead a manager to money, but ya cain't make 'em think...
It's cheaper ta pay fer dead folks 'n it is ta build a better mousetrap...
Happy Contrails
k-o-t-s
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Varies!
Posts: 727
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sispanys ria
"What's the UK or Australian admin.........."
I guess quite a lot for those of us who've 'obtained' our UAE licences on the back of the UK and Australian licence. Worked too bloody hard to have it taken away because of this factoring nonsense. It's a damn sight easier to get a new job than another ATPL.
Further more, as an Airline, we've adopted the UK CAP371 FTL'S. As such, we should follow them. Using the excuse that the GCAA have interpreted the rules differently doesn't hold water. When I reach 100 hours at the months end or 900 in the year, I'll stop. If they have a problem with that, they can discuss it with the UK's CAA via my lawyer.
I doubt it will come to that. After all, wasn't something written recently about some obligation to the GCAA regarding safety mandates?
BYMONEK
"What's the UK or Australian admin.........."
I guess quite a lot for those of us who've 'obtained' our UAE licences on the back of the UK and Australian licence. Worked too bloody hard to have it taken away because of this factoring nonsense. It's a damn sight easier to get a new job than another ATPL.
Further more, as an Airline, we've adopted the UK CAP371 FTL'S. As such, we should follow them. Using the excuse that the GCAA have interpreted the rules differently doesn't hold water. When I reach 100 hours at the months end or 900 in the year, I'll stop. If they have a problem with that, they can discuss it with the UK's CAA via my lawyer.
I doubt it will come to that. After all, wasn't something written recently about some obligation to the GCAA regarding safety mandates?
BYMONEK
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: WGS 84
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I still believe your duty is to deal with the GCAA... which is the local authority. You are now allowed to fly EK thanks to your UAE FCL, not the UK one...
The GCAA pretends to be compliant with all of the ICAO recommandations... just show them what it means.
The GCAA pretends to be compliant with all of the ICAO recommandations... just show them what it means.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Raincoast
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ladies 'n Gents
I received an interestin' PM today from somebody I ain't heard of before.
They had a brand new 'handle'...created this month... it was their first message on PPrune.org an' they was fishin' for some info on Emirates... it was a kinda a wierd request (not the question, which wuz innocent enuff, jist the timin', with it comin' right on the heels of a post which mighta got under somebudy's skin a might)... an' I never seen any other posts by this dude...
...too, the question they ast:well, if they was an industry person, then they would have other means of determinin' the answer... without havin' ta ast me...
I ain't playin' games folks. If I say it happened in my post... it happened.
If EK management wants ta play games, then why doncha read the galdurned ASRs and CSRs and deal with it perfessionally at the time?
...anyone else received any fishin' lures past their nose like this 'un?
Keep on bloggin' in the free world!
k-o-t-s
I received an interestin' PM today from somebody I ain't heard of before.
They had a brand new 'handle'...created this month... it was their first message on PPrune.org an' they was fishin' for some info on Emirates... it was a kinda a wierd request (not the question, which wuz innocent enuff, jist the timin', with it comin' right on the heels of a post which mighta got under somebudy's skin a might)... an' I never seen any other posts by this dude...
...too, the question they ast:well, if they was an industry person, then they would have other means of determinin' the answer... without havin' ta ast me...
I ain't playin' games folks. If I say it happened in my post... it happened.
If EK management wants ta play games, then why doncha read the galdurned ASRs and CSRs and deal with it perfessionally at the time?
...anyone else received any fishin' lures past their nose like this 'un?
Keep on bloggin' in the free world!
k-o-t-s
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: S.H.
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sispanys ria,
With regards
Technical point, but the GCAA don't need to comply with recommendations because as thay are only should haves in ICAO-speak.
With regards
The GCAA pretends to be compliant with all of the ICAO recommandations...
