Silly rest periods in IAH (EK)
short flights long nights
Yes..I would like to know the same
Last edited by SOPS; 18th Apr 2008 at 14:35. Reason: spelling
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Somebody a few posts ago wanted to know what the Delta rest patterns are etc., flying into and out of Dubai.
The rest facility is the standard Boeing one, behind the cockpit with chairs and two bunks upstairs. The overnight is anywhere from three days to six days. Part of that is due to the fact they don't do the trip daily.
The guys I talk to enjoy the layover for a few days-but six?
Caution: Thread creep ahead. Any word on who will fly your 747-8fs. Here at "Giant" we hear all sorts of rumors, EK pilots will, we will. Changes weekly. Anyone know.
The rest facility is the standard Boeing one, behind the cockpit with chairs and two bunks upstairs. The overnight is anywhere from three days to six days. Part of that is due to the fact they don't do the trip daily.
The guys I talk to enjoy the layover for a few days-but six?
Caution: Thread creep ahead. Any word on who will fly your 747-8fs. Here at "Giant" we hear all sorts of rumors, EK pilots will, we will. Changes weekly. Anyone know.
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lets not see this one slip down the list!! Way too important 
Here is the rundown on ULR firstly the talking horse has said that the IAH layover will be extended to 48 hours this is still illegal!!!! Please follow.
Lets just look at IAH (Houston)
DEP DXB 0905 arrive Houston 1625 Local (16hrs20m) more than 14 hours so it is ULR by definition.
FCI 2007-076 Date 24 sep 2007 eff 01 oct 2007 UFN.
Signed by CAPT ED DAVIDSON (SVP FLEET)
ULR GENERIC OPERATION PLAN REFERS...........
CH1 GENERAL 1.5
A ULR FLIGHT may only be planned as a SINGLE FLIGHT sector unless operational restrictions require an enroute landing on day of operation.
CH3 ROSTERING PROVISIONS CREW-FLIGHT CREW
3.1 The following restrictions are INVIOLABLE with regard to the scheduling of flight crew for this plan....
3.1.1 Prior to undertaking a ULR FLIGHT, all crew members shall be ACCLIMATIZED.
DEFINITION OF ACCLIMATIZED FOM 5.1 REFERS...........
When a crew member has spent 3 CONSECUTIVE LOCAL nights on the ground within a time zone which is 2 hours wide,and is able to take uninterrupted local night sleep. IF a duty period ENDS at a station outside 2 hours local time difference from point of departure the crew is NOW UNNACCLIMATIZED UNTIL 3 LOCAL consecutive nights are spent within the new referenced station time zone band!!!!!!!!!!
DEFINITION OF LOCAL NIGHT FOM 5.12 refers..............
A period 0f 8 hours falling between 2200 and 0800 hours local time..
So to sum up.
This is a ULR FLIGHT...
Prior to a ULR FLIGHT the crew MUST be ACCLIMATIZED....
So now lets just take a look at what EK does and what needs to be done to make this flight legal under the SIGNED AND APPROVED document by MR ED SVP FLEET....
DXB HOUSTON (IAH) DEP 0905L arr IAH 1625 L for example on the 16th APRIL.
SIGN OFF 1655 L APP 22 hours rest in the HOTEL before doing the next ULR FLIGHT UNACCLIMATIZED back to DUBAI!! Totally totally illegal guys.... your arses are not covered at all your dangle berries are dangln in the wind be careful!!
The talking horse has now mentioned that the layover will change soon to 48 hours STILL VERY VERY NAUGHTY AND ILLEGAL GUYS , HERE IS WHY!!!!
Back to example..
16th APRIL Arr IAH and sign off 1655 local
16th APRIL 1st local night 2200 til 0800 L
17th APRIL 2nd local night...
18th APRIL 3rd local night 2200 til 0800L but only need to rest til 0600 L as long as you have 8 hours consecutive!! So you can leave on your ULR FLIGHT on the morning of the 18th MINIMUM 61 hours from your arrival to IAH MINIMUM to be acclimatized and legal.
However the flight does not leave IAH until 1850 LOCAL so the crews MUST be rostered to be off duty 1850 minus 1 1750 LOCAL which leaves us with a grand total of 72hours and 55 mins layover in ULR to fit the EK program and make this ULR FLIGHT LEGAL....
So to go and change an illegal flight from 22 hours to another illegal flight of 48hours is a complete joke and makes a complete mockery of any legal documentation that EK produces!!!!! REMEMBER you need 3 local nights when outside a timezone of 2plus hours to be acclimatized!!!
ED and fleet you must take note and behave accordingly if you want to operate within the bounds of legality and reap the rewards financially from ULR FLIGHTS......
Nuff Said
Last edited by BIKKERDENNAH : 16th April 2008 at 11:15.
Here is the rundown on ULR firstly the talking horse has said that the IAH layover will be extended to 48 hours this is still illegal!!!! Please follow.
Lets just look at IAH (Houston)
DEP DXB 0905 arrive Houston 1625 Local (16hrs20m) more than 14 hours so it is ULR by definition.
FCI 2007-076 Date 24 sep 2007 eff 01 oct 2007 UFN.
Signed by CAPT ED DAVIDSON (SVP FLEET)
ULR GENERIC OPERATION PLAN REFERS...........
CH1 GENERAL 1.5
A ULR FLIGHT may only be planned as a SINGLE FLIGHT sector unless operational restrictions require an enroute landing on day of operation.
CH3 ROSTERING PROVISIONS CREW-FLIGHT CREW
3.1 The following restrictions are INVIOLABLE with regard to the scheduling of flight crew for this plan....
3.1.1 Prior to undertaking a ULR FLIGHT, all crew members shall be ACCLIMATIZED.
DEFINITION OF ACCLIMATIZED FOM 5.1 REFERS...........
When a crew member has spent 3 CONSECUTIVE LOCAL nights on the ground within a time zone which is 2 hours wide,and is able to take uninterrupted local night sleep. IF a duty period ENDS at a station outside 2 hours local time difference from point of departure the crew is NOW UNNACCLIMATIZED UNTIL 3 LOCAL consecutive nights are spent within the new referenced station time zone band!!!!!!!!!!
DEFINITION OF LOCAL NIGHT FOM 5.12 refers..............
A period 0f 8 hours falling between 2200 and 0800 hours local time..
So to sum up.
This is a ULR FLIGHT...
Prior to a ULR FLIGHT the crew MUST be ACCLIMATIZED....
So now lets just take a look at what EK does and what needs to be done to make this flight legal under the SIGNED AND APPROVED document by MR ED SVP FLEET....
DXB HOUSTON (IAH) DEP 0905L arr IAH 1625 L for example on the 16th APRIL.
SIGN OFF 1655 L APP 22 hours rest in the HOTEL before doing the next ULR FLIGHT UNACCLIMATIZED back to DUBAI!! Totally totally illegal guys.... your arses are not covered at all your dangle berries are dangln in the wind be careful!!
The talking horse has now mentioned that the layover will change soon to 48 hours STILL VERY VERY NAUGHTY AND ILLEGAL GUYS , HERE IS WHY!!!!
Back to example..
16th APRIL Arr IAH and sign off 1655 local
16th APRIL 1st local night 2200 til 0800 L
17th APRIL 2nd local night...
18th APRIL 3rd local night 2200 til 0800L but only need to rest til 0600 L as long as you have 8 hours consecutive!! So you can leave on your ULR FLIGHT on the morning of the 18th MINIMUM 61 hours from your arrival to IAH MINIMUM to be acclimatized and legal.
However the flight does not leave IAH until 1850 LOCAL so the crews MUST be rostered to be off duty 1850 minus 1 1750 LOCAL which leaves us with a grand total of 72hours and 55 mins layover in ULR to fit the EK program and make this ULR FLIGHT LEGAL....
So to go and change an illegal flight from 22 hours to another illegal flight of 48hours is a complete joke and makes a complete mockery of any legal documentation that EK produces!!!!! REMEMBER you need 3 local nights when outside a timezone of 2plus hours to be acclimatized!!!
ED and fleet you must take note and behave accordingly if you want to operate within the bounds of legality and reap the rewards financially from ULR FLIGHTS......
Nuff Said
Last edited by BIKKERDENNAH : 16th April 2008 at 11:15.
Last edited by BIKKERDENNAH; 20th Apr 2008 at 18:46.
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Bikker
It might be legal, as far as paper produced by EK can be considered base for a professional legality. However if you check what most serious main operators do with such flights, a 72h layover looks like a SQ exeption. I have stated earlier that most respected research into flight fatigue revealed, that on ULR flight layovers you would need two sleep cycles to get into a safe working condition again. This is minimal 36h, most operators then go for a two night layover pattern.
The "acclimatised" definition by EK is a derivate of such research, adapted to their needs and badly layed down. To take this screw-up as a base to demand a 72h layover is, imho, going too far with too feeble arguments. Make no mistake, a 24h layover just as much, and purely unsafe to add to the scam.
I am happy to settle with 48h, it would then conform to international standards and to the research of serious institutes. Goes with it, naturally, that the LAX, SFO and GRU patterns MUST follow.
It might be legal, as far as paper produced by EK can be considered base for a professional legality. However if you check what most serious main operators do with such flights, a 72h layover looks like a SQ exeption. I have stated earlier that most respected research into flight fatigue revealed, that on ULR flight layovers you would need two sleep cycles to get into a safe working condition again. This is minimal 36h, most operators then go for a two night layover pattern.
The "acclimatised" definition by EK is a derivate of such research, adapted to their needs and badly layed down. To take this screw-up as a base to demand a 72h layover is, imho, going too far with too feeble arguments. Make no mistake, a 24h layover just as much, and purely unsafe to add to the scam.
I am happy to settle with 48h, it would then conform to international standards and to the research of serious institutes. Goes with it, naturally, that the LAX, SFO and GRU patterns MUST follow.
Last edited by GMDS; 21st Apr 2008 at 03:32.
