Emirates - Commuting from Oz
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Emirates - Commuting from Oz
Hello All.
Are there any Emirates pilots who could give me some idea of the problems one would have commuting from Oz to Dubai? I understand it is done, but would like to know what sort of life we would have with husband commuting to Dubai to fly? Mostly interested in this option since living in Dubai seems to carry such a road safety risk!
Are there any Emirates pilots who could give me some idea of the problems one would have commuting from Oz to Dubai? I understand it is done, but would like to know what sort of life we would have with husband commuting to Dubai to fly? Mostly interested in this option since living in Dubai seems to carry such a road safety risk!
Only really possible out of Perth as flights out of the East Coast are consistently full and you can't get on even with a firm space ticket (and we don't get to use the jump-seat).
Even out of Perth, you have to realize it is not a commuting position. No guarantee of group days off, rotating bidding seniority, lots of shorter sectors mixed in with the long-haul stuff means you won't see him much!
The roads in Dubai are indeed horrific, and the place certainly doesn't suit everyone, but with the right attitude you CAN build a good life-style here.
If, however, commuting is the only option, you would be much better off pursuing an actual commuting position e.g Korean, Air Japan, or one of the Indian carriers.
Best of luck!!
Even out of Perth, you have to realize it is not a commuting position. No guarantee of group days off, rotating bidding seniority, lots of shorter sectors mixed in with the long-haul stuff means you won't see him much!
The roads in Dubai are indeed horrific, and the place certainly doesn't suit everyone, but with the right attitude you CAN build a good life-style here.
If, however, commuting is the only option, you would be much better off pursuing an actual commuting position e.g Korean, Air Japan, or one of the Indian carriers.
Best of luck!!
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The Wiz speaks the truth.
It is done but expect less than 7 days a month at home and only if you get lucky with trip swaps.
And an 11 hour (Per) or 14-16 hour (East coast) commute twice each month on top of your 90 hour roster....
Expect a tired and grumpy boy when he's home!
It is done but expect less than 7 days a month at home and only if you get lucky with trip swaps.
And an 11 hour (Per) or 14-16 hour (East coast) commute twice each month on top of your 90 hour roster....
Expect a tired and grumpy boy when he's home!
House + family in Australia = liable for Aussie income tax.
ATO are VERY interested in commuting airline pilots. Frankly not worth it if having to commute and lose 1/3 of the income to the tax man. Best to either have the whole family in Dubai or stay home with Jet*/Tiger/Virgin.
ATO are VERY interested in commuting airline pilots. Frankly not worth it if having to commute and lose 1/3 of the income to the tax man. Best to either have the whole family in Dubai or stay home with Jet*/Tiger/Virgin.
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Looking at some who've tried it - and not very successfully - you'll take ten years off your life if not kill yourself, and if you were unlucky enough to be involved in an incident that could be even remotely blamed on fatigue, (which 99.9% of Dubai-resident EK pilots will readily admit to suffering to some degee at the best of times), you'd quickly discover that the proverbial ice upon which you were standing was about as thin as you'd imagine any ice to be in downtown Dubai in mid July.
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Echo all the above comments above, the only realistic chance would be to live near Perth but the time apart and the fatigue when you get home will take its toll on your relationship.
If EK would introduce a commuting roster pattern then it would be possible however that is still not on the near horizon.
If EK would introduce a commuting roster pattern then it would be possible however that is still not on the near horizon.
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Thank you all so much for your input. From where we are sitting at present, there is no way we would know these things. It sounds like a grim, to be seriously avoided prospect. We will keep thinking......
To be sure about the issue though, the way it works with SAA where he is presently flying: Some pilots on the A340 live in Perth and bid for maximum flights there as well as manage days off as much as possible - they back their off days up at the end and beginning of the month. One of the reasons he has motivated Emirates to me is that it seems to have a rostering system almost as good as SAA? Apparently there are not many airlines with a rostering system as friendly as SAA's but Emirates comes close? Because of this we thought it may work! Is the message I am hearing that this is not so?
To be sure about the issue though, the way it works with SAA where he is presently flying: Some pilots on the A340 live in Perth and bid for maximum flights there as well as manage days off as much as possible - they back their off days up at the end and beginning of the month. One of the reasons he has motivated Emirates to me is that it seems to have a rostering system almost as good as SAA? Apparently there are not many airlines with a rostering system as friendly as SAA's but Emirates comes close? Because of this we thought it may work! Is the message I am hearing that this is not so?
Last edited by macojedaan; 18th Nov 2007 at 09:34. Reason: additional thoughts
mj,
Does the SAA bidding system work on Seniority and is Mr macco fairly senior?
At EK we have five bid groups which rotate, such that when your group is at the top of the list, you get a fairly "Senior" bid, but when at the bottom you get the leftovers.
When in second then first position, you would have a good shot at, say, the last week of one month followed by the first week of the next off, but that only come around once every five months.
If you are coming from SA (particularly Jo berg) I'm not trying to be factitious by saying the chaos on the roads would be more than made up for by the lack of violent crime, particularly towards Western Ex pats (and before the chorus jumps in, I know it happens, but much less than many other places.).
There are a lot of Springboks here and, generally, I think they are probably one of the happiest groups.
Hope it all works out for you, in any case.
Does the SAA bidding system work on Seniority and is Mr macco fairly senior?
At EK we have five bid groups which rotate, such that when your group is at the top of the list, you get a fairly "Senior" bid, but when at the bottom you get the leftovers.
When in second then first position, you would have a good shot at, say, the last week of one month followed by the first week of the next off, but that only come around once every five months.
If you are coming from SA (particularly Jo berg) I'm not trying to be factitious by saying the chaos on the roads would be more than made up for by the lack of violent crime, particularly towards Western Ex pats (and before the chorus jumps in, I know it happens, but much less than many other places.).
There are a lot of Springboks here and, generally, I think they are probably one of the happiest groups.
Hope it all works out for you, in any case.
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As discussed elsewhere (many times) and always previously dismissed, EK is now studying, and by most internal reports, close to announcing a decent basing package.
Obviously it will need to, things are tight enough now in the glogal pilot market, let alone adding with Emirates and others adding all these new A350's etc. The sooner EK does bruing in a viable basing package the better (for them) as the 'race to the top' for T&C of expat pilots is just beginning. The sooner they lock-in a plan, the less they will need to spend.
Look for something formalised in April.
I suspect mj that this may then mean the difference between your partner going or not going to EK. Good luck.
Obviously it will need to, things are tight enough now in the glogal pilot market, let alone adding with Emirates and others adding all these new A350's etc. The sooner EK does bruing in a viable basing package the better (for them) as the 'race to the top' for T&C of expat pilots is just beginning. The sooner they lock-in a plan, the less they will need to spend.
Look for something formalised in April.
I suspect mj that this may then mean the difference between your partner going or not going to EK. Good luck.
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I have recently attended the recruiting process and am wondering if commuting is not an option, then with the rostering system currently in place at EK, would it be possible to at least get home to Perth for 1 week in every 8 weeks, i.e. seven weeks in the pit and 1 week in Perth?
Would it also be dependent on whether or not you are on the 330 or the 777? Any advice would be appreciated.
Would it also be dependent on whether or not you are on the 330 or the 777? Any advice would be appreciated.
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We have seen that the A340 flies to Sidney and Melbourne, not Perth. We were considering commuting from one of those cities. Interesting about possible bases in Oz? Is this just a rumour or something definite to hope for? What's this about April??? We are very keen to settle our kids in Oz asap. Maybe one year in Dubai is ok, but thereafter we would like to move to Oz to give kids max chance to grow up there. Bases would be a wonderful solution, but most probably is too vague an option to depend on? Traffic problems/danger on the roads is a huge concern for us in going to Dubai; we don't want to leave crime problems and then go straight into another type of problem. Any info about possible future bases in Oz would be most welcome as it would give us a way out of Dubai. Is this wishful thinking? If we join Emirates should we accept that Dubai is very much part of the package for as long as we are part of the Airline?
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Oh Dear
Dubai will be your life, the traffic, the sand, the gruesome heat, the injustice, Ramadan. EK is Dubai and without Dubai there is no EK. We all made the choice. We can hope , pretend, think of a better life. It is how it is. If you husband wants to join EK be prepared to live here, your kids will grow up here. The schools are good, life for western expats is good, working conditions are good, you will get used to it, even to the driving. Of course I would also rather live in Australia, but you cannot have both. If SAA is good for you, the crime in South Africa is still the lesser evil than drivinging in Dubai (wonder how that could be) then I would suggest you to stay where you are. But commuting impossible, he will maybe have 4-5 full days at home in a blue moon. With these rosters it will definitley kill your husband.
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The 777 will always do perth for the forseeable future. In the bottom 2 bid groups you probably will not get a perth trip . In the top 2 you will, 3rd group a maybe. If you bid for all the ulh flights you may get a week off in a row .
Commuting to Perth is possibly worth a try but only if you are on 777.
Commuting to Perth is possibly worth a try but only if you are on 777.
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Why would you want to commute to Australia?
Seriously, commuting from Dubai to anywhere on the network is difficult. I won't say impossible because definitions of an acceptable commute vary from person to person.
However, the vast majority of pilots don't commute which indicates (to me at least) how difficult it really is.
I know you want to make it work, will see it from a different angle, maybe if we sacrifice this.....etc etc, but the simple answer is you won't even be close to what most people consider an acceptable arrangement.
Three words "Don't do it".
Seriously, commuting from Dubai to anywhere on the network is difficult. I won't say impossible because definitions of an acceptable commute vary from person to person.
However, the vast majority of pilots don't commute which indicates (to me at least) how difficult it really is.
I know you want to make it work, will see it from a different angle, maybe if we sacrifice this.....etc etc, but the simple answer is you won't even be close to what most people consider an acceptable arrangement.
Three words "Don't do it".
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Final input!!
Thanks everyone for feedback to my better half. She is part of this process heart-&-soul luckily for me! So if I could impose on everyone for some final input: My family and their future are my primary concern and thereafter a pleasant flying environment. The issue then is their life in Dubai while I am having a pleasant time enjoying the EK operation.
Just about everything I experienced about Emirates while busy with the selection process was positive from people to operations, except the environment for family. Most specifically here the traffic, as she said, but also just living. So, if one can find ways to cope with driving, please tell me what your families do? Whenever I ask this question, I get very nebulous answers, such as "oh, there is the biggest indoor ski slope in the world here, the EPC, picnics in the desert" etc, all of which is great, but after that? I would imagine that during school periods there is not much else that can absorb your time (for kids) but that still leaves a wife at a loss if she does not have, or does not want, a local career. I hope that the answer is the local expat community for her and their kids for my kids after school (weekends/holidays). But again, once one is finished with entertaining indoors, then what?? I also don't like the "our malls here are world class", since neither of us can stand shopping for more than 5 minutes.
My own answers centre around making this a wonderful adventure. Living is safe, education is all that could be desired (possibly more expensive than normal but subsidised), cost of living is debatable but acceptable. So when I am "home" we want to explore. I understand that some of the neighboring states and even the UAE have very attractive geography and are worth traveling to and exploring. No reason to expect that this is not possible? Also we would like to make Dubai a centre to explore the world. A hinderance to this would be the staff travel policy - does anyone travel extensively with their family during leave, ad-hoc off time? Is the Emirates leave policy useable?
I would really appreciate some input along these lines as I am on short finals for having to accept the Emirates offer or walk away. Thanks again to everyone so far.
Just about everything I experienced about Emirates while busy with the selection process was positive from people to operations, except the environment for family. Most specifically here the traffic, as she said, but also just living. So, if one can find ways to cope with driving, please tell me what your families do? Whenever I ask this question, I get very nebulous answers, such as "oh, there is the biggest indoor ski slope in the world here, the EPC, picnics in the desert" etc, all of which is great, but after that? I would imagine that during school periods there is not much else that can absorb your time (for kids) but that still leaves a wife at a loss if she does not have, or does not want, a local career. I hope that the answer is the local expat community for her and their kids for my kids after school (weekends/holidays). But again, once one is finished with entertaining indoors, then what?? I also don't like the "our malls here are world class", since neither of us can stand shopping for more than 5 minutes.
My own answers centre around making this a wonderful adventure. Living is safe, education is all that could be desired (possibly more expensive than normal but subsidised), cost of living is debatable but acceptable. So when I am "home" we want to explore. I understand that some of the neighboring states and even the UAE have very attractive geography and are worth traveling to and exploring. No reason to expect that this is not possible? Also we would like to make Dubai a centre to explore the world. A hinderance to this would be the staff travel policy - does anyone travel extensively with their family during leave, ad-hoc off time? Is the Emirates leave policy useable?
I would really appreciate some input along these lines as I am on short finals for having to accept the Emirates offer or walk away. Thanks again to everyone so far.