Middle East lost its golden touch!!
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It is a testament to the recuitment dept that we have still been able to find acceptable recruits and more or less keep a reasonable standard. The fact is though that we are running out of these pilots and we not only have to find more to replace those leaving but find many more to fly the constant stream of new aircraft.
The flight training department is aware of the problem but senior management seem oblivious to the impending crisis the lack of manpower will cause. Why it will take parked aircraft (or worse an incident/accident) to get their attention is a mystery to me but it appears that this is only way for them to take the problem seriously enough to do something about it... then again
The flight training department is aware of the problem but senior management seem oblivious to the impending crisis the lack of manpower will cause. Why it will take parked aircraft (or worse an incident/accident) to get their attention is a mystery to me but it appears that this is only way for them to take the problem seriously enough to do something about it... then again
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I flew with a couple of new fellas yesterday. One bloke said that on his course they had two turbo-prop guys (Dash 8). I knew the FOM had changed but I didn't know we had these blokes in the system. Nothing wrong with that of course, I just hope the training system is geared to helping them through. I'm still not sure if it would be a good idea having them in the left seat in three years time though.
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It is a testament to the recuitment dept that we have still been able to find acceptable recruits and more or less keep a reasonable standard. The fact is though that we are running out of these pilots and we not only have to find more to replace those leaving but find many more to fly the constant stream of new aircraft
If you look at the package without looking at the fact that you have to live in a very tall building or elsewhere (not so nice), it is still the best package in the region. EK "works". It's a stable management with minors changes and they are now basking the hard(er) work done mainly after 91.
Why it will take parked aircraft (or worse an incident/accident) to get their attention...........
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'Best package in the region' perhaps (marginally), but overall it has fallen behind in many areas. 10-15+% inflation plus a 30% decline in the $ over the past 3 years has eroded the package substantially compared with Europe and Oz. This is not unique to EK as all the other Gulf states are suffering the same erosion for the same reasons so we go down with them and just look a little better relative to them.
Outside the ME demand is putting up packages and improving Ts & Cs. This has already attracted many from the region back 'home' or nearer to it. The fact is we are losing far too much experience and attracting not nearly enough to maintain the momentum we need to expand at the intended rate.
Your faith that they will 'keep pulling it through' is an unfortunate reflection on the management approach here. 'Pulling it through' rather than easing it safely through a very difficult and demanding transition infers the higher risk factor the former entails as opposed to the safer latter approach.
I wish I had your faith, but it seems a little blind to me. I hope it doesn't end in tears but the writing, even if it has been there a for a long time, remains on the wall.
Outside the ME demand is putting up packages and improving Ts & Cs. This has already attracted many from the region back 'home' or nearer to it. The fact is we are losing far too much experience and attracting not nearly enough to maintain the momentum we need to expand at the intended rate.
Your faith that they will 'keep pulling it through' is an unfortunate reflection on the management approach here. 'Pulling it through' rather than easing it safely through a very difficult and demanding transition infers the higher risk factor the former entails as opposed to the safer latter approach.
I wish I had your faith, but it seems a little blind to me. I hope it doesn't end in tears but the writing, even if it has been there a for a long time, remains on the wall.
Last edited by Marooned; 12th Aug 2007 at 11:45.
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I wish I had your faith, I hope it doesn't end in tears, but the writing is on the wall even if it has been there a for a long time
The bean-counters and the others alike, "love" it very much. Today, they praise you with glory (Well done! You are the man!...), tomorrow, they scald you (you are f#@&ing idiot) or show you the exit door (you are fired!). And that's it!
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Agreed, although there is a definately a shortage of any praise or glory.
It's ironic that we are the weakest link when it comes to the company when there is a screw up and the strongest link in preventing the problems happening in the in the first place.
It's ironic that we are the weakest link when it comes to the company when there is a screw up and the strongest link in preventing the problems happening in the in the first place.
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Spot on mate, no doubt about it, we certainly are more like computer operators than good old fashion pilots anymore. Long time ago when I was a wee flight instructor I had a good mate who was a helicopter instructor and we always gave the guy grief about how he's a lawn mower jock and all that. One day he said fancy giving the Bell 47 a ride, "bet you cannot hover it" so ofcourse I gave it a go and sure enough it was a handfull. Since then I have a whole lot more respect for helicopter drivers.
Cheers mate
Mach
Cheers mate
Mach
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If they are rejecting 90% of their candidates its about time they reviewed their requirements because they are interviewing the wrong people.
Middle East airlines are expanding rapidly and need people to fill left seats fast. What they need are applicants with previous turbo prop/jet short haul, multi sector time and preferably in command. Previous wide body / long haul experience and in particular no command for the most part is a waist of time.
Once these guys/girls get their heads around some of the fundamentals of swept wing aircraft and there aren't that f-----g many they'd be ready to go.
If on the Bus they might need 12-18 months to get used to pulling and pushing their knobs as that is all flying an Airbus is (just a big wank).
Previous time on type is just a cost saving exercise and not a command attribute. They need to be assessing command potential in the sim which includes communication skills, CRM, situational awareness and proficiency. Just give them a 45 min loft scenario from A to B with an emergency, and let the exercise run its course. You will learn a lot more about someone's command ability out of this than flying a circuit followed by a V1 cut and single engine ILS.
Follow these steps watch the success rate go up!!
Middle East airlines are expanding rapidly and need people to fill left seats fast. What they need are applicants with previous turbo prop/jet short haul, multi sector time and preferably in command. Previous wide body / long haul experience and in particular no command for the most part is a waist of time.
Once these guys/girls get their heads around some of the fundamentals of swept wing aircraft and there aren't that f-----g many they'd be ready to go.
If on the Bus they might need 12-18 months to get used to pulling and pushing their knobs as that is all flying an Airbus is (just a big wank).
Previous time on type is just a cost saving exercise and not a command attribute. They need to be assessing command potential in the sim which includes communication skills, CRM, situational awareness and proficiency. Just give them a 45 min loft scenario from A to B with an emergency, and let the exercise run its course. You will learn a lot more about someone's command ability out of this than flying a circuit followed by a V1 cut and single engine ILS.
Follow these steps watch the success rate go up!!
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Doesn't help.
The guys that would convince you during such exercises are no longer showing up, T&C's just not attractive enough.
I concurr with the 90% fail rate, because it reflects who's still applying, unfortunately.
The only remedy is bringing T&C's in line with the requirement of the human quality they're seeking, especially for TRI/E's, or settle for the quality that effectively still shows up.
I've flown as pax quite often recently and the experience (i.e. on board service, quality of seats or IFE, but unfortunately just as much the poor PA's and sometimes very "managed" flight (dis)comfort) is at best questionable. This is a direct consequence of EK sitting on the wrong side of the dirham.
The guys that would convince you during such exercises are no longer showing up, T&C's just not attractive enough.
I concurr with the 90% fail rate, because it reflects who's still applying, unfortunately.
The only remedy is bringing T&C's in line with the requirement of the human quality they're seeking, especially for TRI/E's, or settle for the quality that effectively still shows up.
I've flown as pax quite often recently and the experience (i.e. on board service, quality of seats or IFE, but unfortunately just as much the poor PA's and sometimes very "managed" flight (dis)comfort) is at best questionable. This is a direct consequence of EK sitting on the wrong side of the dirham.
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Considering UAE??
I have been reading this post for only a day so I'm basically clueless. Where are the DEC's coming from for UAE? UAE's positive poster claims of life being great in Dubai seams to be a bit different than the post on this thread. I was actually thinking about applying but not much positive stuff here? I lived in Yuma AZ through the summers (aka 50c +) and I have an open mind about culture and realize a Westerner would be a 2nd class citizen. If I have a solid flying job here in the US am I an absolute idiot to consider coming to the sand pit???
DOG aka clueless for now??
DOG aka clueless for now??
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There you have it Dog... come to the ME if it gets you ahead somehow but be very careful because it just isn't that clear cut any more and it's no wonder you and others are confused by it all.
Once pilots came because at some point you could cash in the chips and lead a better lifestyle back at home...
Now they would have you believe you are living the lifestyle whilst here in the desert and think they can get away with paying you a 'local wage'... enough to stand still, but not enough to save for a that homecoming one day.
My advice... come and take a look, a very close look before signing anything. I didn't look too closely and saw what I wanted to see and have paid a high price for it... I don't think I'm alone in that respect.
Once pilots came because at some point you could cash in the chips and lead a better lifestyle back at home...
Now they would have you believe you are living the lifestyle whilst here in the desert and think they can get away with paying you a 'local wage'... enough to stand still, but not enough to save for a that homecoming one day.
My advice... come and take a look, a very close look before signing anything. I didn't look too closely and saw what I wanted to see and have paid a high price for it... I don't think I'm alone in that respect.
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Yep , ive had a 
gutts full of this dump , can anyone please help on how to get out of here .......
I must say that its great to see that iam not the only one feeling this way
Ive even being making a video log , so that next time I have a bloody brain fart , and think I can do better for myself by working in a place like this, I can sit down , have a look at my video , and then go to work with a grin on , like the old days ,the main thing is can anybody please help me with a good idea on how to leave these place still with my head held high
regards
hb
hehehe
gutts full of this dump , can anyone please help on how to get out of here .......I must say that its great to see that iam not the only one feeling this way
Ive even being making a video log , so that next time I have a bloody brain fart , and think I can do better for myself by working in a place like this, I can sit down , have a look at my video , and then go to work with a grin on , like the
old days ,the main thing is can anybody please help me with a good idea on how to leave these place still with my head held highregards
hb
hehehe
it's time to leave to go HOMEJoin Date: Feb 2007
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Going somewhat back to the original theme of this thread:
"DAE abandons bid to buy Auckland airport" (Gulfnews 7.9.07)
"..... first DP World was not allowed by American lawmakers to keep six US ports .... and currently the Borse Dubai is trying to buy the Nordic exchange operator OMX ... and now the Auckland retreat .. "
And still it doesn't ring a bell to the locals! Why would the world not want their participation or money?
Maybe, just maybe due to bad experience. Anyone having dealt with them knows how little they honour contracts and promises. More and more expats have left the ME and share their experience once back home again. A good start to remedy the situation might be a tight broom right here in the ME, i.e. rattle the nicely protected bushes of Nakheel, Emaar, Etisalat (maybe even EK) and make them accountable for what they signed. Maybe, just maybe there would be a little more confidence of people in direct contact and this would reflect outside of the region.
"DAE abandons bid to buy Auckland airport" (Gulfnews 7.9.07)
"..... first DP World was not allowed by American lawmakers to keep six US ports .... and currently the Borse Dubai is trying to buy the Nordic exchange operator OMX ... and now the Auckland retreat .. "
And still it doesn't ring a bell to the locals! Why would the world not want their participation or money?
Maybe, just maybe due to bad experience. Anyone having dealt with them knows how little they honour contracts and promises. More and more expats have left the ME and share their experience once back home again. A good start to remedy the situation might be a tight broom right here in the ME, i.e. rattle the nicely protected bushes of Nakheel, Emaar, Etisalat (maybe even EK) and make them accountable for what they signed. Maybe, just maybe there would be a little more confidence of people in direct contact and this would reflect outside of the region.
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It's been my experience that non fulfillment of obligations is a world wide phenomena not just the middle east. Also the abuses you mention within Dubai are not exclusive to local companies, many respectable international organizations are also guilty of such things while operating here.
It is perhaps more prevalent in this part of the world due to the lack of rules, unions and or government protection.
I think the negative response to the US ports was due to a fear of all things connected with Islamic countries and that all embracing excuse for all... SECURITY.
The airport deal in NZ was simply a fear of all thing connected with Emirates and the competition that they brought to Air NZ.
It is perhaps more prevalent in this part of the world due to the lack of rules, unions and or government protection.
I think the negative response to the US ports was due to a fear of all things connected with Islamic countries and that all embracing excuse for all... SECURITY.
The airport deal in NZ was simply a fear of all thing connected with Emirates and the competition that they brought to Air NZ.
