Switching Runways in Dubai
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Join Date: Mar 2002
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Switching Runways in Dubai
What is the reason for switching runways earlier than before and nominating 30R as departure runway at 8am, even with tailwinds?
The other week, the duty runway was changed to 30R around 8am and several flights requested 12L, still as per then ATIS, (and were subsequently turned down) as 30R imposed payload restrictions and forced them to start offloading payload. With a tailwind component 30R becomes even more limiting and while this may not affect most airplanes or short haul flights, A340-300's and Rolls Royce powered 777-300's, which both make up for the lack of thrust with an increase in required runway length, become quickly payload limited.
In the past, the changeover happened around 10-11am when the seabreeze starts to move in.
Does 30R allow ATC to move traffic quicker in/out because of current taxyway closures?
While I enjoy taking off and NOT having to look into the morning sun, I hate to leave staff
and freight (Unfortunately, standby staff will be offloaded before everything else.) behind because ATC insists on a more limiting runway with a tailwind component and won't budge.
I realize, controllers don't do this out of spite, but I would like to understand the reasons better.
The other week, the duty runway was changed to 30R around 8am and several flights requested 12L, still as per then ATIS, (and were subsequently turned down) as 30R imposed payload restrictions and forced them to start offloading payload. With a tailwind component 30R becomes even more limiting and while this may not affect most airplanes or short haul flights, A340-300's and Rolls Royce powered 777-300's, which both make up for the lack of thrust with an increase in required runway length, become quickly payload limited.
In the past, the changeover happened around 10-11am when the seabreeze starts to move in.
Does 30R allow ATC to move traffic quicker in/out because of current taxyway closures?
While I enjoy taking off and NOT having to look into the morning sun, I hate to leave staff
and freight (Unfortunately, standby staff will be offloaded before everything else.) behind because ATC insists on a more limiting runway with a tailwind component and won't budge.I realize, controllers don't do this out of spite, but I would like to understand the reasons better.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Hi Eldin
It's just too subjective to accurately answer your question. The weather has been slightly strange lately and the wind a little less predictable but 8am certainly sounds like a VERY early change. We normally change onto 12l between 6 and 7a.m and don't swing again until late a.m.
One possible explanation is that we have had several short runway closures for signal mobile vehicles to do some testing on the ILS lately and they may have required 30r in use. There is going to be a bit of a shakedown period for a few weeks while controllers and pilots get used to ANOTHER new airfield layout in preparation for 12r opening for certain periods as a departure runway (meant to start today!).
In terms of prefered runways we don't really have a preference re no. of runway movements. The worst is having a strong westerly when a/c auto brake for the closed M5/6 then trundle down to M4. V.Frustrating but that will all change now as M4 closed and M5/6 open... Should be interesting!
Had a strip torn off me by a pilot on another thread about braking later which seemed a bit over the top. Reducing runway occupancy is something we endeavor to improve in the interests of safely reducing delays for the airlines... It's not for fun or the good of our health! Sitting in the tower day in day out you certainly get the feel for when a crew has made the effort or not... Anyway, I digress.
Maybe it was just a lazy controller that morning!?!
Sorry I can't be more help, CR
It's just too subjective to accurately answer your question. The weather has been slightly strange lately and the wind a little less predictable but 8am certainly sounds like a VERY early change. We normally change onto 12l between 6 and 7a.m and don't swing again until late a.m.
One possible explanation is that we have had several short runway closures for signal mobile vehicles to do some testing on the ILS lately and they may have required 30r in use. There is going to be a bit of a shakedown period for a few weeks while controllers and pilots get used to ANOTHER new airfield layout in preparation for 12r opening for certain periods as a departure runway (meant to start today!).
In terms of prefered runways we don't really have a preference re no. of runway movements. The worst is having a strong westerly when a/c auto brake for the closed M5/6 then trundle down to M4. V.Frustrating but that will all change now as M4 closed and M5/6 open... Should be interesting!
Had a strip torn off me by a pilot on another thread about braking later which seemed a bit over the top. Reducing runway occupancy is something we endeavor to improve in the interests of safely reducing delays for the airlines... It's not for fun or the good of our health! Sitting in the tower day in day out you certainly get the feel for when a crew has made the effort or not... Anyway, I digress.
Maybe it was just a lazy controller that morning!?!
Sorry I can't be more help, CR
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Note that effective today 05/07/07 Rwy12R/30L will be used as an emergency landing runway only and used for visual departures only during
04:00-08:00utc and again 17:00 to 23:00utc. I dispatched a few flights out this moring on Rwy12R intersection M7. Worked very well.
04:00-08:00utc and again 17:00 to 23:00utc. I dispatched a few flights out this moring on Rwy12R intersection M7. Worked very well.
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Hi there
12 R deps only... TORA's: M7(ATC prefered Holding Point)/K4 3530m, M5/K2 4045m, M4/K1 4315.
Out of interest, we in ATC were originally told that an any A/C could taxi behind any other A/C holding at K1/K2 however this has since been changed and nothing is allowed to taxi behind so the standard taxi route will be via L4 and M to M7 or from the north to cross 12L at N4 then M to M7. Request for other dep points should be made on start-up for our planning and K holding points will generally only be used where a/c are fully ready and will not delay any other a/c by holding there.
Hope this helps and good luck. If your not sure about something please ask on freq'. You may get a slightly curt response if it's busy but much rather that than a/c making wrong turns etc.
CR
12 R deps only... TORA's: M7(ATC prefered Holding Point)/K4 3530m, M5/K2 4045m, M4/K1 4315.
Out of interest, we in ATC were originally told that an any A/C could taxi behind any other A/C holding at K1/K2 however this has since been changed and nothing is allowed to taxi behind so the standard taxi route will be via L4 and M to M7 or from the north to cross 12L at N4 then M to M7. Request for other dep points should be made on start-up for our planning and K holding points will generally only be used where a/c are fully ready and will not delay any other a/c by holding there.
Hope this helps and good luck. If your not sure about something please ask on freq'. You may get a slightly curt response if it's busy but much rather that than a/c making wrong turns etc.
CR
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Thanks for the #s choclit runway.
will keep them in mind when i operate ic 897/898 next week(Friday the 13th i think!)
If 12R is offered, might need to use M5/K2 though ,due to hi load and temp for our little old 320s!
And we are not too pickey about who we taxi behind,so no worries there.
Warm regards
will keep them in mind when i operate ic 897/898 next week(Friday the 13th i think!)
If 12R is offered, might need to use M5/K2 though ,due to hi load and temp for our little old 320s!
And we are not too pickey about who we taxi behind,so no worries there.
Warm regards
