Emirates stopping DEC
So Johnpilot your ex Ryanair!! I guess we can workout who you are. I am sure the Fo's find you an inspiration (not).
You obviously wriggled your way through the selection process. One of the many twats we have as DEC's, who think they are god's gifts...
EGGW
You obviously wriggled your way through the selection process. One of the many twats we have as DEC's, who think they are god's gifts...
EGGW
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RYANAIR! and you get a DEC position with EK that sums up the DEC recruitment perfectly!!
p.s johnpilot i would like to guess that you are the only DEC from ryanair so making arrogant posts like that is not going to make you any friends here just ask Tartan Guy about that.
p.s johnpilot i would like to guess that you are the only DEC from ryanair so making arrogant posts like that is not going to make you any friends here just ask Tartan Guy about that.
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Dudes, glad some of you are not part of management - or maybe you are! The ONLY reason for DEC's at EK, is that their are not enough NEW JOINERS to replace the F/O's moving to the left seat! Simple isn't it!
DEC's are being scaled down - a fact from recruitment. Having flown with DEC's and those who transitioned through the ranks, I can honestly say that those who upgraded from the RHS, are a better and safer bet than the majority of DEC's. Make no mistake, their are some really great individuals selected as DEC's, but the majority battles to get a company culture established. You can feel when you fly with them that they are still in thier previous employers mode of thinking - which can be scary at times.
If EK requires DEC's, employ them, if not, let them snooze!
Last edited by 777SandMan; 15th Jul 2007 at 06:24.
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For gods sake guys stop bashing each other up for all your current woes . The only people to blame for your current situation are your wonderful management who don't give a toss about you in the first place. If they deem that DEC's with questionable experience are better than upgrading the guys that are in the RHS ,than my suggestion is to pack your bags and leave. Life is too short and sitting in that god forsaken place and complaining is not going to solve anything. They have shown all of you what they think of you, so isn't it about time you showed them what you think of good old EK
. Been there done that and left,thank god!
. The only people to blame for your current situation are your wonderful management who don't give a toss about you in the first place. If they deem that DEC's with questionable experience are better than upgrading the guys that are in the RHS ,than my suggestion is to pack your bags and leave. Life is too short and sitting in that god forsaken place and complaining is not going to solve anything. They have shown all of you what they think of you, so isn't it about time you showed them what you think of good old EK. Been there done that and left,thank god!
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I agree with TP, however, as one that looks towards emirates ever so often, it has to be said, that I would never consider leaving my current job for a FO slot with emirates.
This isn't a question of being to good to be an FO, lords knows I am not, but more of a renumeration/advancement point of view. Things at EK change at a moments notice and if I was hired as an FO, then six months later, if the DEC program was back on, I would be hosed.
I do not know, who gets hired as DEC, sure there are some "gems", but also there must be some good people, who might be great FO's and given a bit of time in the EK system, great captains, but they would not have joined as FO's and hence, EK would be looking at rostering problems.
Yes, I worked for a company that decided to hire DEC, even though I was eligilibe for an upgrade and had passed the sim assesment test and it sucked, but that is how it goes, for better or for worse.
The way I see it, unless EK pays their FO more and assure them, that upgrades happens as seniority predicts, then no one with good qualifications will hire on as anything other than DEC's.
This isn't a question of being to good to be an FO, lords knows I am not, but more of a renumeration/advancement point of view. Things at EK change at a moments notice and if I was hired as an FO, then six months later, if the DEC program was back on, I would be hosed.
I do not know, who gets hired as DEC, sure there are some "gems", but also there must be some good people, who might be great FO's and given a bit of time in the EK system, great captains, but they would not have joined as FO's and hence, EK would be looking at rostering problems.
Yes, I worked for a company that decided to hire DEC, even though I was eligilibe for an upgrade and had passed the sim assesment test and it sucked, but that is how it goes, for better or for worse.
The way I see it, unless EK pays their FO more and assure them, that upgrades happens as seniority predicts, then no one with good qualifications will hire on as anything other than DEC's.
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I believe that those who are in the RHS better show some respect and patience
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EGGW, and Wiley hello,
The respect comment was not requested and or demanded by me towards me.
It just shows how little you understand of what is required of you to be a Commander of an aeroplane.
It also shows why you have trouble understanding why it is that EK wants DECs and why DECs are good for the airline.
I have all the respect from all those that matter to me. I have never needed nor seeked the respect of fellow colleagues who I do not know, and who I will never see again.
The colleague in the right hand seat is just a co-worker who has to perform to the required standard and give me all the support, not because I ask it, or need it, but because he or she is a professional and has a duty and obligation to contribute to the safety of the flight.
As your manager I ask of you to do your job. I do it in a very nice way because it gets results.
If you let your emmotions get in the way of your work responsibilities, then not only are you negligent, but will never be a proper professional airline captain.
My flight deck environment is always pleasant and happy because I am a professional, and I do not allow the immature thinking of some of those in the right hand seat influence the Safety, efficiency and well-being of the customers.
I have manners, and I am very capable of putting up with anyone for 12 hours at a time.
Work is work, and time off is time off. I hardly see anyone again after we do a flight.
What you think and feel outside of the flightdeck is not my problem. I was hired to do a job as an airline captain, not a co-pilot psychologist.
Your issues with the management are exactly that, your issues..... Solve them and talk about them with those that care about you.
I only care that when you fly with me you do it professionally and civilised as is expected of me as well.
I do not believe that we are having a competition on the flight deck as to who is the most knowledgeable. If you are that is great, I learn something from you and it helps with the flight.
I still get paid my salary, and I still do my job, which is to manage the flight.
I will say it again, so that it sinks in... I manage the flight.
Good managers are not those who know everything, but who know how to utilise their resources well, solve problem, understand the politics and stay out of the lime light.
The reason Emirates needs DECs and likes DECs is because we know how to manage flights. We have been doing it for years and as experienced Commanders they know that we can adapt and adjust to the requirements of the Middle East, or the Far East etc.
Some one in the office has decided that this is the best way forward. I do nothave to answer for policies which I did not write, nor did I request for my benefit.
All of us will move again when a better opportunity comes. When you have the experience required to move to a different job as a captain you will do so. When you can command more money because of your experience you will do so.
I do not need the attention, nor the approval of the colleagues in the right hand seat, as I am not running for prime minister....
I am not a politician, and as a professional who does a very ordinary job that is done by many others around the world I do not get excitted about the company, its policies and weather or not I should or should not have come to Emirates because some FO is being disavantaged.
You also came here as a co-pilot because you did not meet the criteria for DEC. You did not come here to gain experience, and if you did then get it and move on.
Any of you who believe in a seniority system in the expat world are very naive.
That is your problem, not mine. I do not care if you have been let down by management. Join the queue, we all have.
I do my job and I stay at a place as long as it suits me.
I am not emotional about work. It pays the bills. I, like most, want to work as little as possible and earn as much as possible.
Every one comes here for different reasons. I came for my reasons. I did not jump any line. I was hired for a job which was advertised for by the Employer.
Best of luck with your upgrade when the time comes.
The respect comment was not requested and or demanded by me towards me.
It just shows how little you understand of what is required of you to be a Commander of an aeroplane.
It also shows why you have trouble understanding why it is that EK wants DECs and why DECs are good for the airline.
I have all the respect from all those that matter to me. I have never needed nor seeked the respect of fellow colleagues who I do not know, and who I will never see again.
The colleague in the right hand seat is just a co-worker who has to perform to the required standard and give me all the support, not because I ask it, or need it, but because he or she is a professional and has a duty and obligation to contribute to the safety of the flight.
As your manager I ask of you to do your job. I do it in a very nice way because it gets results.
If you let your emmotions get in the way of your work responsibilities, then not only are you negligent, but will never be a proper professional airline captain.
My flight deck environment is always pleasant and happy because I am a professional, and I do not allow the immature thinking of some of those in the right hand seat influence the Safety, efficiency and well-being of the customers.
I have manners, and I am very capable of putting up with anyone for 12 hours at a time.
Work is work, and time off is time off. I hardly see anyone again after we do a flight.
What you think and feel outside of the flightdeck is not my problem. I was hired to do a job as an airline captain, not a co-pilot psychologist.
Your issues with the management are exactly that, your issues..... Solve them and talk about them with those that care about you.
I only care that when you fly with me you do it professionally and civilised as is expected of me as well.
I do not believe that we are having a competition on the flight deck as to who is the most knowledgeable. If you are that is great, I learn something from you and it helps with the flight.
I still get paid my salary, and I still do my job, which is to manage the flight.
I will say it again, so that it sinks in... I manage the flight.
Good managers are not those who know everything, but who know how to utilise their resources well, solve problem, understand the politics and stay out of the lime light.
The reason Emirates needs DECs and likes DECs is because we know how to manage flights. We have been doing it for years and as experienced Commanders they know that we can adapt and adjust to the requirements of the Middle East, or the Far East etc.
Some one in the office has decided that this is the best way forward. I do nothave to answer for policies which I did not write, nor did I request for my benefit.
All of us will move again when a better opportunity comes. When you have the experience required to move to a different job as a captain you will do so. When you can command more money because of your experience you will do so.
I do not need the attention, nor the approval of the colleagues in the right hand seat, as I am not running for prime minister....
I am not a politician, and as a professional who does a very ordinary job that is done by many others around the world I do not get excitted about the company, its policies and weather or not I should or should not have come to Emirates because some FO is being disavantaged.
You also came here as a co-pilot because you did not meet the criteria for DEC. You did not come here to gain experience, and if you did then get it and move on.
Any of you who believe in a seniority system in the expat world are very naive.
That is your problem, not mine. I do not care if you have been let down by management. Join the queue, we all have.
I do my job and I stay at a place as long as it suits me.
I am not emotional about work. It pays the bills. I, like most, want to work as little as possible and earn as much as possible.
Every one comes here for different reasons. I came for my reasons. I did not jump any line. I was hired for a job which was advertised for by the Employer.
Best of luck with your upgrade when the time comes.
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"I hardly see anyone again after we do a flight," says johnpilot. Is anybody here surprised?
I bet there are a few F/Os putting 1,000 points on "avoiding flying with" after a fun packed 10 hours on the flight deck and a layover with you.
Please, please tell me this is a wind up and EK didn't actually hire this idiot
I bet there are a few F/Os putting 1,000 points on "avoiding flying with" after a fun packed 10 hours on the flight deck and a layover with you.
Please, please tell me this is a wind up and EK didn't actually hire this idiot
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BigGeordie,
I understand from your post that attention span is probably not one of your strong points, I also understand that emmotions are probably hard to control.
Refer back to my post about not being hired as a co-pilot psychologist nor to be your friend...........
If you read it properly and let it sink in, you will realise that what I have said is an un-emmotional account of the facts.
I assure you, I realy do not care if you bid not to fly with me.
I believe that you probably have an acceptance problem and need buddies to confirm what I great person you are.
I do not need that self reassurance. I believe in family values, and very few real friends.....
I did not come here to make more friends. That does not mean that I am not friendly, polite, and corteous to my neighbours and colleagues.
You need to re-think the terms friendship, being friendly, having manners, professional, and un-emmotional.
Just because I speak the truth and you do not like it does not mean that I cannot have a perfectly normal useless conversation with you on the flight-deck.
I assure you that we will not solve the problems of the world, nor will we solve the issues of Emirates on a 12 hour flight.
I also know that you are not interested in my life and daily chores beyond the 4 or 9 day trip we do, as I am also not interested.
In the whole world I mean nothing to you and you mean nothing to me.
I have been in enough companies to realise that we are only significant to those who we love and love us.
You believe that just because my views on reality are different I am not friendly enough on the flight-deck. That is your choice.
Some of the guys I fly with are pessimists and all they do is complain about their situation, others are optimists and believe that the economics will change things for the better.
I am offering you a different view.
Be a realist and adjust your sails to take advantage of the prevailing winds.......
I understand from your post that attention span is probably not one of your strong points, I also understand that emmotions are probably hard to control.
Refer back to my post about not being hired as a co-pilot psychologist nor to be your friend...........
If you read it properly and let it sink in, you will realise that what I have said is an un-emmotional account of the facts.
I assure you, I realy do not care if you bid not to fly with me.
I believe that you probably have an acceptance problem and need buddies to confirm what I great person you are.
I do not need that self reassurance. I believe in family values, and very few real friends.....
I did not come here to make more friends. That does not mean that I am not friendly, polite, and corteous to my neighbours and colleagues.
You need to re-think the terms friendship, being friendly, having manners, professional, and un-emmotional.
Just because I speak the truth and you do not like it does not mean that I cannot have a perfectly normal useless conversation with you on the flight-deck.
I assure you that we will not solve the problems of the world, nor will we solve the issues of Emirates on a 12 hour flight.
I also know that you are not interested in my life and daily chores beyond the 4 or 9 day trip we do, as I am also not interested.
In the whole world I mean nothing to you and you mean nothing to me.
I have been in enough companies to realise that we are only significant to those who we love and love us.
You believe that just because my views on reality are different I am not friendly enough on the flight-deck. That is your choice.
Some of the guys I fly with are pessimists and all they do is complain about their situation, others are optimists and believe that the economics will change things for the better.
I am offering you a different view.
Be a realist and adjust your sails to take advantage of the prevailing winds.......
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JohnPilot - well, before your time my dear chap everyone was recruited as an F/O... I'd like to point out that there are quite a few senior F/O's who were recruited before there were any "criteria to be DEC" and quite rightly these guys have every reason to feel aggrieved....... Well, hopefully things are looking up with the latest info to come from the crew portal.
From my experience with the DEC's I have to say that most are first class pilots and commanders, a couple were nice blokes but not up to the position. I could easily give examples but that wouldn't be nice on a public forum
Too be honest I did fly with a couple of "through the ranks" guys who needed watching closely...
Whatever anyone thinks though, it's a fact the the DEC program caused a huge ""morale" problem within flight ops. The fact that it's coming to an end should cause some cheer
From my experience with the DEC's I have to say that most are first class pilots and commanders, a couple were nice blokes but not up to the position. I could easily give examples but that wouldn't be nice on a public forum
Too be honest I did fly with a couple of "through the ranks" guys who needed watching closely...Whatever anyone thinks though, it's a fact the the DEC program caused a huge ""morale" problem within flight ops. The fact that it's coming to an end should cause some cheer
Johnpilot I have been a Captain at EK much longer than you matey! I bet FO's bid 1000 pts every month to AVOID having to bear your drivel, that is spouted forth. Management should have a good idea of who you are!
Perhaps you could also use this oppurtunity to string a few paragraphs together and write coherently.
Don't get me wrong, some DEC's are good guys, no question, but some are desperately bad, with little route knowledge. try to be much less condascending in your posts.
EGGW
Perhaps you could also use this oppurtunity to string a few paragraphs together and write coherently.
Don't get me wrong, some DEC's are good guys, no question, but some are desperately bad, with little route knowledge. try to be much less condascending in your posts.
EGGW
White Knight,
The last of the FOs that were lied to about DECs not delaying upgrades are very soon to be upgraded. Those remaining knew all about it when signing on the line, and agreed to it. I think its very premature to think that the end of the DEC is nigh. EK is no different from SQ or KAL etc now, and DECs are now a part of life.
John pilot, read your first post again, and then tell us you do not need some of this reassurance you are accusing FOs of needing??? But I am sure that Wiley will be very interested in your short field takeoff tips for the B777
.
Keep recovering.
Don
The last of the FOs that were lied to about DECs not delaying upgrades are very soon to be upgraded. Those remaining knew all about it when signing on the line, and agreed to it. I think its very premature to think that the end of the DEC is nigh. EK is no different from SQ or KAL etc now, and DECs are now a part of life.
John pilot, read your first post again, and then tell us you do not need some of this reassurance you are accusing FOs of needing??? But I am sure that Wiley will be very interested in your short field takeoff tips for the B777
. Keep recovering.
Don
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Don - absolutely agree with you with regards to the F/O's who joined after the DEC program was instigated - they knew the deal. Good to hear that the last of the "lied to" guys are looking at courses....
I think you're probably right regards DEC's in the future - we need a hell of a lot of pilots, and they're not exactly arriving here thick and fast!!
I think you're probably right regards DEC's in the future - we need a hell of a lot of pilots, and they're not exactly arriving here thick and fast!!
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Thylakoid,i do not see what the problem with decs are..alot of airlines take decs in, not just ek..even if the pilot concerned was x ryan air so what! u forget that most of u guys(fos) joined ek with no ratings at all,the majority! jp joins ek as a dec,U JOINED EK AS A BUSH PILOT ******! chuck y nice post
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Seems to me that johnpilot, far from having his emmotions (sic) under control, is struggling with his own conscience over his employment at Emirates as a DEC. And this is manifesting itself as absurd postings attempting to justify, mainly to himself, his recent career choice.
Also absurd is that he makes himself so readily identifiable to anyone with the mildest interest about who the person might be who is posting these poorly disguised cries for help. He appears to want to be found out.
The following excerpt from a posting by johnpilot dated 22nd September '03:
"To all you guys at Emirates it is sad to hear that even your airline is beggining to change its behaviour towards its pilot body. It seems that after 9/11 the industry is in a complete mess, and that every manager's dream of fu..ing the pilots is coming true. I just hope that when the time comes and the market changes all of us have the tenacity and audacity to pay them back in the same way. DEC is not good news especially when it is not commom practice in operations. Emirates is becoming another Singapore, or Gulfair, and even Qatar airways might look pretty interesting to you guys pretty soon.
For those who have been there long enough, I am sure it is business as usual, for those that have joined recently well I am sure its going to be an interesting period. For those who were about to join, or who will join, I wish them luck."
Also absurd is that he makes himself so readily identifiable to anyone with the mildest interest about who the person might be who is posting these poorly disguised cries for help. He appears to want to be found out.
The following excerpt from a posting by johnpilot dated 22nd September '03:
"To all you guys at Emirates it is sad to hear that even your airline is beggining to change its behaviour towards its pilot body. It seems that after 9/11 the industry is in a complete mess, and that every manager's dream of fu..ing the pilots is coming true. I just hope that when the time comes and the market changes all of us have the tenacity and audacity to pay them back in the same way. DEC is not good news especially when it is not commom practice in operations. Emirates is becoming another Singapore, or Gulfair, and even Qatar airways might look pretty interesting to you guys pretty soon.
For those who have been there long enough, I am sure it is business as usual, for those that have joined recently well I am sure its going to be an interesting period. For those who were about to join, or who will join, I wish them luck."